On the subject of breadboards, if we can get them cheap enough then why not include them. They only tend to be stuck on by double sided foam pads anyway. Stock them as a spare part which the user can replace when the old one wears out. I agree with the downside of using these but if they are cheaply replaceable or even offered as an option, it may be worth looking at. I agree that the unit should be factory assembled. This means it can be fully tested as a whole rather than maybe shipping an unassembled unit which an end user can botch up and try to blame the manufacturer for their inability to solder/insert ic's the right way etc etc. We need something to work "out of the box". Programmer on board ? - you bet !!!! I dont want loads of boards knocking round my workbench. This unit should be a one stop solution capable of being permanently attached to a PC. No messing about swapping stuff about, messing about with cables / psu connectors etc. Dual in line 40 pin connector - didn't I suggest that in a previous post ? ;-) Marvelous idea, I can buy 40 pin - 40 pin cables for less than a dollar. I actually find it cheaper to buy these than cable on its own and quite often butcher them to make interconnects between circuits. Zif Socket !!!! Zif Socket !!!! Zif Socket !!!! Zif Socket !!!! Zif Socket !!!! Zif Socket !!!! Zif Socket !!!! Zif Socket !!!! - get the idea - we need Zif sockets. DIP sockets dont have the insertion cycle durability for long term use, people tend to rip them off the board when they dont get their screwdriver (oops - chip removal tool) in the right place and the stresses to the solder joints - phew !!!! Also include a ICSP socket so the end user isnt limited to programming on board - a standard RG11 type socket (8 way as used on network cards) would be ideal. Anyway, my contribution for tonight Cheers Dominic ----- Original Message ----- From: "Byron A Jeff" To: Sent: Friday, August 16, 2002 7:00 PM Subject: Re: [PIC]: The PICLIST Development Project: Executive Overview -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics