Hear hear - my sentiments exactly. I've got a Tate style programmer set up on an experimental board (quick for inserting and removing pics) and I keep meaning to move it onto a proper PCB (I've got the board/uv box/bubble etch tanks etc) but cant be assed to at the moment. This programmer has been rebuilt maybe 10-15 times when I needed the experimenter board but always ends up back on it. I've got it mastered now - I can build the classic Tate in 5 mins flat ;-) I'd still like a "proper" fully built programmer with a Zif socket though. Maybe when time permits and my house stops threatening to fall down I'll etch me a couple of boards. By this time hopefully we'll have agreed on a final design for the PBK and I won't have to ;-) Keep it simple, keep it compatible, keep it cheap and we'll be onto a winner. If the PBK sells for $20-$30, its no big deal to buy another if compatibility becomes an issue (I remember telling people that they'll never need more than 2mb Ram when selling 286 computers - he he he). Things do become obsolete, new products do come out and people will accept that they have to change their equipment. Spending $20 for this change however is a lot easier to stomach than $200. I still use 16C84's as well as the old 16C72a's (which I have loads of). I haven't yet needed to move to the 16F8xx let alone the new 18 series. Peripherals on the PBK - yes an LCD would be nice but which one ? I've got stock of anything between 1x16 to 4x40 inverse backlit. I use them all. I'd much rather have an IDE type cable (purchased maybe for a couple of quid), one end with a plug and with bare tinned ends that I could wire into whatever LCD I wanted to use. 5V, GND, 4/8 bit connections and w/r etc that would plug into the PBK. There could be sockets on the board for PortB,PortC etc and this could be the "universal" I/O connector(s) for anything that needed connecting off the PBK. I would want 4x7 segment displays (multiplexed), 2 variable resistors, a thermistor, a buzzer/piezo element, maybe a 2A 5v regulator (and definitely a fuse or overload protection of some sort ;-), IR Photo diode, 8 Bicolour Led's, a block type experimental area and something to make the coffee while its at it :-) Anyway, thats my wishlist Cheers Dominic ----- Original Message ----- From: "Benjamin Bromilow" To: Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2002 8:38 PM Subject: Re: [PIC]: Piclist Beginners Kit (PBK) > > The followup question which has been asked before: If > this is about > getting code into a chip, how in any way > > will this project be better, different, or more useful than > > the myriad ways that already exists to get code into a > > chip? > > Everything from the PICSTART+, to the WISP628, to > > NOPPP, to TLVP, to ICD, etc. If it does what > > everything else does, then what's the reason d'etre? > > Because if the PBK is a ready constructed cheap programmer then beginners > will buy it rather than trying to make their own PCBs up for NOPPP/TLVP etc > etc... Beginners would therefore have less problems with programming. We > could effectively make the other programmers redundant. I counted over 15 > parallel port PIC programmers when I was deciding which one to build. If we > made the PBK cheap enough, ready finished and guaranteed to work, then > newbies would go for it. Don't forget most newbies have one specific project > in mind and it's often simple (therefore cheap). They won't spend loads on a > development kit that costs lots more than the rest of the project. They'll > build a NOPPP/TLVP etc and then buy the Designer for the second project > if/when the bug bites (which for sure it will). Or rather they'll build a > NOPPP/TLVP etc still have problems with it and then buy the Designer (for > the second project) by which time they'ld know enough to make a proper job > of building the programmer in the first place making the whole thing > slightly superfluous. > Sure the designer kit sounds great and if the price is right I'm buying one > but thats because I'm no longer a newbie (slightly subjective I agree!)..... > > Ben > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: > [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads > > > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads