My thoughts on all the talk about personality modules will add cost to the production of this product. Extra connectors, personality boards - we're going from a single simple solution to a modular (plenty of bits to lose) design. There appear to be only 4 or 5 different variants on the pinouts where programming voltages and programming pins are concerned on HVP programmers. Why not go back to basics, look at a HVP design with a slider switch with 4 positions (or dip switches) and go for some cheap logic / transistors to select whether a 8/18/28/40 pin chip is in the Zif (which I would really want on any programmer) socket. Its nice getting very technical on this but a P16Pro or Tait compatible programmer is more than enough for 95% of people that will be starting out with Pic controllers. I don't mind flicking a switch on a programmer to say which chip is installed ! There are USB to parallel convertors which can be picked up for 10 bucks (if you're in the computer trade), the majority of machines still have a parallel port (although I've seen quite a few recently that are missing the serial port). Maybe have this style of programmer in the PBK and a USB version with ICD and all the trimmings in a professional version. The original aim for this project was to give the beginner a cheap quick start into the world of PIC controllers and I feel we're getting bogged down with designing an all singing, all dancing complex programmer/development kit. In fact - lets have two switches on the board, one for selecting the type of chip being programmed and the other for "development/programming" switch. When in development mode, the programming circuit is totally isolated from the rest of the board, when in development, the Pic is reset, the clock is routed through to the appropriate pins (according to the setting on the chip type switch). In programming mode, the relevant pins on the pic are isolated from the development side. All easily achievable through simple 74xx logic. I was taught a very useful principle at college - KISS - keep it simple stupid - works every time ;-) Just a thought. Dom ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sean Alcorn (SYD)" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 14, 2002 8:49 AM Subject: Re: [PIC]: Piclist Beginners Kit (PBK) > Jason, > > > Even if you could get ZIF sockets for as cheap as LIF, they would take up > > more room on the board - about half an inch more length than LIF, plus > > space for the handle when it's down. > > No. I meant one 40Pin Wide ZIF - which I see further you understood. > > And as for your forthcoming idea.... we must be totally in sync. I just > spent an hour training my kid's soccer team (yes, with a broken leg) and > came up with this EXACT idea. I pictured just the edge connector. I think > they come in 2 x 40 Pin wide don't they? > > > The only downside I see to all this is that the oscillator pin connections > > are getting rather long: PIC -> ZIF -> personality socket -> personality > > card -> OSC connector -> OSC module -> crystal or whatever. The added > > capacitance is certainly going to affect the osc frequency, especially with > > the RC module. > > Where are you considering to put the oscillator module? Can we have a > combined "personality/oscillator" modules? > > Only one question at this stage. What do we do with the SIP connector when > not in use? Do we need to isolate it at all? > > The rest of the list is awkwardly quiet! :-) > > Regards, > > Sean > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList > mailto:piclist-unsubscribe-request@mitvma.mit.edu > > > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList mailto:piclist-unsubscribe-request@mitvma.mit.edu