> > They are, but only if you want to do 'serious' programming work > > (translate: use more than a few PIC chips). If not: why not buy them > > with a bootloader, or have someone put one in for you? And > a bootloader > > will not set protection bits because it can't (at least on > 16f chips). > > 1 - Because it's a pain. Even though the added cost may be > minimal, I think lots of people would be uncomfortable with this. It > just feels wrong, like you are too dependent on someone. You will always depend on where you buy your chips. Just suppose that each f877 sold contained a bootloader - just like it has LVP enabled now! > 2 - Since a boot loader can't change some (all ?) of the > config bits, do you have to buy with/without watchdog enabled and choice of oscillator > modes? I don't suggest a bootlader is heaven for all, just that it is very practical for a beginner who might not want to choose an oscillator setting (what IS an oscillator setting? - just use 20 Mhz xtal with 2 * 20 pf, the chip is already set for this) and does not even know what a watchdog is for (that's like a Tamagotchi, right? You stay up all night and feed it every hour - :( ). > 3 - What happens when someone's code bugs out and scribbles on the > bootloader? I know it *shouldn't*, but stuff happens. And > it's guaranteed to happen right at the start of a long > weekend when you were planning on > doing some serious PIC development. Then you are screwed, just like when you applied the 5V/12A from a PC power supply to your PIC, backwards. But note that one a beginner reaches the level that he/she will (deliberately or accidentally) overwrite code in her program she might be better off with a next step up the ladder (I would suggest an ICSP HVP programmer, like my Wips628 [OK Byron, I'll mention my designs/products more often!]). Wouter van Ooijen ---------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.