> Points 5 and 6 are relatively minor, but I think points 1-4 are > overwhelmingly conclusive. They are, but only if you want to do 'serious' programming work (translate: use more than a few PIC chips). If not: why not buy them with a bootloader, or have someone put one in for you? And a bootloader will not set protection bits because it can't (at least on 16f chips). Wouter van Ooijen ---------------------------------------------- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: www.voti.nl consultancy, development, PICmicro products -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics