On Mon, Aug 05, 2002 at 01:23:57PM -0400, myke predko wrote:
> Hi Folks,

Round 2. DING!

> Reading over the comments below, I feel like there is some consensus on what
> needs to be done but still a bit of work on how to accomplish it.
>
> To summarize what I think is being discussed (and, quite honestly, what _I_
> think should be done), I would define the project as:
>
> 1.  Consisting of a programmer design that can be used to program a device
> in socket.

So we're definitely abandoning the prospect of a preprogrammed PIC with a
bootloader on board? I'm simply thinking in newbiespeak. They really aren't
too interested in the process of programming, it's a necessary evil. There
are no programming issues if a preprogrammed chip is installed.

> 1.1.  The device in socket is a PIC16F87x (to allow for bootloader/ICD).  A
> PIC16F627 may be used, but this will eliminate the bootloader/ICD capability
> and just allow serial communications.

Agreed.

> 1.2.  The device will be programmed by LVP (to simplify the programmer
> circuit).

If we go with the preprogrammed chip I'd say no. While many of us see the
utility of LVP espeically in terms of putting together a quick programmer,
in newbiespeak what will be glaring is the unavilability of I/O pins. Frankly
PORTB really sucks when RB3/RB4 unavailable.

The device should be HVP if at all possible.

> 1.3.  The programmer will be controlled by an RS-232 port to allow
> application/bootloader/ICD communications with the host controller.

I can certainly live with this. ;-)

> 1.4.  The programmer will be able to reset the PICmicro MCU.

Sure.

> 1.5.  The programmer will be built from commonly available parts (no PLDs).

I still thought we were talking about something assembled. So parts shouldn't
be a big deal right?

> 1.6.  The programmer will have a series of pins that will allow it to be
> programmed into a breadboard.
  ^^^^^^^^^^
  interfaced ???

>
> 2.  Programming software will run under Windows.
> 2.1.  There doesn't seem to be any calls for Linux or Mac versions.

Linux! Linux!! Linux!!!

Not a big deal. As long as the specifications are open, as I'm sure they will
be, generating Linux/Mac/Solaris/Palm or any other version shouldn't be a
big deal.

> 2.2.  Software to be written in C++ with dialog box control.

I call for complete separation of the UI from the control software. I don't
have any problem with one UI or the other. I do have a problem with locking
an application into a particular user interface.

It would be preferable if something crossplatform (wxwindows, Qt) were used.
But as long as the UI can be completely removed from the control, I'd be
satisfied.

> 2.3.  The software can communicate with the PICmicro MCU in the programmer
> via RS-232.
> 2.4.  The software can detect the presence of the programmer PCB.
> 2.5.  The software will work with an arbitrary COM port (say up to COM16).

All cool.

>
> 3.  A series of beginner's projects will be created.
> 3.1.  Will consist of interfacing to LEDs, buttons, other devices

Make sure that an LCD is there.

> 3.2.  Serial communications will be presented.

Preferable hardware serial comms first.

> 3.3.  The projects will start with high level examples and then migrate to
> assembly language.

That's a tough one. If we do high level examples, we'll need a simple,
accessible high level language. Nothing truly fits the bill though Wouter's
JAL seems to come pretty close.

Any language that we use is going to have to have tools on the CD. That
greatly limits the choices.

My gut says that straight assembly is going to be the simplest choice. But I'm
open to suggestions.


>
> 4.  Text will be written explaining the projects and the theory behind them.

Absolutely.

>
> Questions:
>
> 1.  Will the programmer be made available as a kit or as a built/tested
> product?

The latter.

> 2.  Who will supply the programmer?

Sean and the volunteer distributors from what I've read.

> 3.  What if multiple companies want to supply the programmer/PCB?  Will this
> be truly "open source"?

Hopefully.

> 4.  How do we go about making up the list of projects?

Tough question.

> 5.  How will questions be logged/answered?

Here? A web based forum? A mailing list?

>
>
> I am more than happy to donate space on my web site for this project and I
> will be happy to set up a page on it to help out.

Cool.

BAJ

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