>But you still need to realize that there are hobbyist and >students whose time is infinitely less valuable than money >(which they usually don't have). >For them it probably is still worth the effort to roll their own. The biggest problem I suspect with this particular saga which has been running is the limited knowledge and (I suspect) tools with which to verify the operation of the programmer. It seems to me that a DVM and/or oscilloscope to verify the operation would have had this operating in almost zero time. However there has been no mention of voltages being checked at any stage, that I can see. Without even a basic multimeter, then the likelihood of anything getting going, once a problem occurs, becomes very slim, unless it is something like a "duh" moment, from which recovery is possible, without damage to the components. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads