On Sat, Aug 03, 2002 at 03:41:03AM +0300, Mike Singer wrote:
>  I can't stop myself discussing the question of choice of 18
> versus others, though I do realize I should.
>
>  By "bad habits" for beginners I mean not using particulaly
> 12XXX or 16XXX. "Bad habits" is to start learning something
> that is a kind of garbage, especially for educational purposes.
>  I know you disagree with me, but it can't change my position:
> 12-16XXX are garbage from the beginner's point of veiw to
> start with.

Um, why exactly do you think that?

>  If a beginner keeps in mind he ever would use <20 pin chips
> he definitely should turn to AVR line. If not - then 18XXXX still
> is a good choice. If he seems to feel a lack of tools or supply
> for 18XXXX let him (beginner) go to AVR.

And why do you think that it's helpful to a novice to switch architectures
in midstream?

>  Do not complain of a lack of supply for 18XXXX!

Not only the supply of actual parts, but in addition a lack of tools and
information to get started.

> _SUPPLY_ IT, piclisters!!! Do not ask what PICList can do
> for you. Ask yourselves what can you do for PICList.
>  As for me, It is a deep MARASMUS

Interesting word. I had to go look it up...

> to stick from the start (for
> beginner) with bank switching, too poor command set, port
> latching etc when there is 18XXXX or AVR on the market for
> lower prices without those stupid drawbacks.
>  I don't see why 18XXXX is much complex then 12-16XXX to
> start with.

Please compare development tools.

> Many beginners choosed "complex" AVR and are happy with it, as you see.

Actually what I've seen is many complaints about lack of availability.

>  The fact that there still exist market for 12-16XXX has no relation
> to beginner.

???? Please rephrase.

>  For non beginner: Nobody would agree to pay more for a job
> for just using PICs in a project. With 12-16XXX one can't reach
> productivity and sometime quality as with AVR. So one is to
> admit to lower wages.

I'll add a "in your opinion" to the end of this.

BAJ

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