I can't stop myself discussing the question of choice of 18
versus others, though I do realize I should.

 By "bad habits" for beginners I mean not using particulaly
12XXX or 16XXX. "Bad habits" is to start learning something
that is a kind of garbage, especially for educational purposes.
 I know you disagree with me, but it can't change my position:
12-16XXX are garbage from the beginner's point of veiw to
start with.
 If a beginner keeps in mind he ever would use <20 pin chips
he definitely should turn to AVR line. If not - then 18XXXX still
is a good choice. If he seems to feel a lack of tools or supply
for 18XXXX let him (beginner) go to AVR.
 Do not complain of a lack of supply for 18XXXX!
_SUPPLY_ IT, piclisters!!! Do not ask what PICList can do
for you. Ask yourselves what can you do for PICList.
 As for me, It is a deep marasmus to stick from the start (for
beginner) with bank switching, too poor command set, port
latching etc when there is 18XXXX or AVR on the market for
lower prices without those stupid drawbacks.
 I don't see why 18XXXX is much complex then 12-16XXX to
start with. Many beginners choosed "complex" AVR and are
happy with it, as you see.
 The fact that there still exist market for 12-16XXX has no relation
to beginner.
 For non beginner: Nobody would agree to pay more for a job
for just using PICs in a project. With 12-16XXX one can't reach
productivity and sometime quality as with AVR. So one is to
admit to lower wages.

 Thank you for you spent your time replying to my posting.

   Mike.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
PS: What I'm doing by these postings translated from russian
sounds like (15 years ago): "Agitate for communism". :-)



Olin Lathrop wrote:
> > > Beginners should learn the right way from the start before
> > > bad habits become difficult to break.
> > .
> > .
> >  Great words. Therefore I contended that beginners should
> > start with PIC18XXXX line.
>
> I'm not sure if this is a serious statement or a religious
> statement.  If
> the latter: let's not get into that sort of crap, -------.
> If the former:
>
> The choice of 18 versus 16 family is not an issue of right or
> wrong.  There
> are still legitimate reasons one might chose a 12, 16, or 18
> family PIC for
> a particular design.  This is very different from bad
> programming practise
> versus good programming practise.
>
> It does seem, however, that Micrchip's pricing makes an 18
> part a better
> choice for some high volume designs even where a 16 part
> would have been
> adequate.  I have been quoted lower a lower price for high
> volumes of the
> 18F452 than for the 16F877 in the same package.
>

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