> But it's the classic fallacy. Novices never stay novices. > Projects very quickly > become more complex as the novice developer becomes more > comfortable with the > environment. Agreed, but novices usually don't look that far ahead when scratching their heads and thinking where to begin. A few bucks wasted on a 16F84 "feet-wetter" is no big deal to almost anyone. I'll agree with others that there really is a good amount of PIC 16F628 info out there, but most newbies don't want to tackle a month's worth of docs before seeing their LED's blink. Hey, I have an idea -- let's buy a bunch of those LED's that have built-in blinkers, and sell them to newbies for $5 each, telling them that they include pre-programmed 16F84's. Connect a couple volts, watch it blink, ditch it, then pick up some 16F628's. :-) I'll go reserve my spot on late-night infomercial TV now -- right between the Hollywood 24-hr diet and the 30-minute millionaire system. :-) > OK. I can buy that. I'll put up a 16F628 based blinky LED on my page. That's the spirit! :-) And of course, I make these demands on you folks, when I've been meaning to get my own web pages up and running (and include a bunch of good PIC content) for a while now. Slap on my own wrist. :-( Cheers, -Neil. > -----Original Message----- > From: pic microcontroller discussion list > [mailto:PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Byron A Jeff > Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 11:43 PM > To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: Re: [PIC] 16F628 vs 16F84 preaching. Was and really still is: > RE: [PIC]: selecting your first > > > On Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 09:43:38AM -0500, Pic Dude wrote: > > Wouter van Ooijen typed: > > > > > 1. The 16c84, 16f84 and 16f84a are obsolete. Don't use them, > unless you > > > have a *very* good reason, which could for instance be: > > > * you can not get hold of any other chip > > > * you are building an exsiting design > > > * your design needs to run at 5.5 .. 6.0 Volt (16x84 only) > > > > Add "* someone else who wants to get on the 16F628 bandwagon will > > sell you their 16F84's for pennies on the dollar." > > > > > > Anyway, somewhat like preaching Linux in lieu of Windows, > > Which I try not to do. That's religion. PIC differences aren't. > > > I feel that needs to be a better display of support for the 16F628 if > > this preaching is to be successful. Like myself, a beginner will > > want lots of support, and simple step-by-step proven designs to > > get their first PIC project running. "Hello World" for the PIC, > > if you will. > > OK. I can buy that. I'll put up a 16F628 based blinky LED on my page. > > > > This implies using a popular chip, and a newbie now > > getting into PICs will usually go to other sources for info first > > rather than this list. They will see the following first: > > - A quick web search shows a ton of 16F84 circuits doing all > > sorts of simple things (instead of the 16F628). > > - A quick scan of PIC books at the local Barnes & Noble or > > Borders results in a tons of 16F84 circuits. I still check > > these books when I'm there, and still haven't found any on > > the 16F628 yet. > > - A quick web search for programmers shows a whole slew of > > 16x84 programmers, rather than the 16F628. > > > > It tells a beginner -- here's a lot of things to do with a 16x84, > > and here are a lot of ways to program it. > > That's all inertia due to the fact that 16F84 had a 6-7 year head start. > Only time will overcome that. > > Also novices are unaware that the 16F84 programmers be definition must be > more complex than the 16F628 programmer, due to lack of LVP. So > they end up > spending a significant amount of time developing and debugging the tool > instead of getting to work. > > Lastly many of those serial based programmers are defective because they > trust that the clamping diodes will clamp the excess voltage and > that RS232 > is going to operate out of spec with 0-5V only. Then you hear > newbies wailing > about the fact that the programmer doesn't work. > > > > > Some of the benefits we're preaching mean nothing to a newbie. > > If you want to flash LED's, more memory means nothing. Hardware > > PWM, comparators and USARTs mean nothing to a newbie with a very > > simple goal in mind. > > But it's the classic fallacy. Novices never stay novices. > Projects very quickly > become more complex as the novice developer becomes more > comfortable with the > environment. > > So very soon after the blinky LED and the simple LCD interface, the novice > will start tacking projects where the additional timers and hardware are a > godsend. > > > It would be much easier to preach the > > benefits of using the 16F628 to a complete beginner if there were > > lots of support in place. Don't tell them -- show them that it > > really is more popular. That means we (PICsters who have a clue > > beyond the newbie level) need to start pushing 16F628 designs on > > the web. Those of us with circuits on the web need to start > > converting the designs for the 16F628. The Piclist pages need > > to be changed to indicate that the 16F628 is now the preferred > > chip and show sample circuits for that. (When I started, I built > > a bunch of the projects under the Cheapic page, such as bincnt, > > eggtimer, binclock, etc, and those are all for the 16F84). > > I'll do my part ;-) > > BAJ > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics > (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics > > > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics