On Wed, Jul 31, 2002 at 09:43:38AM -0500, Pic Dude wrote:
> Wouter van Ooijen typed:
>
> > 1. The 16c84, 16f84 and 16f84a are obsolete. Don't use them, unless you
> > have a *very* good reason, which could for instance be:
> > * you can not get hold of any other chip
> > * you are building an exsiting design
> > * your design needs to run at 5.5 .. 6.0 Volt (16x84 only)
>
> Add "* someone else who wants to get on the 16F628 bandwagon will
>      sell you their 16F84's for pennies on the dollar."
>
>
> Anyway, somewhat like preaching Linux in lieu of Windows,

Which I try not to do. That's religion. PIC differences aren't.

> I feel that needs to be a better display of support for the 16F628 if
> this preaching is to be successful.  Like myself, a beginner will
> want lots of support, and simple step-by-step proven designs to
> get their first PIC project running.  "Hello World" for the PIC,
> if you will.

OK. I can buy that. I'll put up a 16F628 based blinky LED on my page.


> This implies using a popular chip, and a newbie now
> getting into PICs will usually go to other sources for info first
> rather than this list.  They will see the following first:
>   - A quick web search shows a ton of 16F84 circuits doing all
>     sorts of simple things (instead of the 16F628).
>   - A quick scan of PIC books at the local Barnes & Noble or
>     Borders results in a tons of 16F84 circuits.  I still check
>     these books when I'm there, and still haven't found any on
>     the 16F628 yet.
>   - A quick web search for programmers shows a whole slew of
>     16x84 programmers, rather than the 16F628.
>
> It tells a beginner -- here's a lot of things to do with a 16x84,
> and here are a lot of ways to program it.

That's all inertia due to the fact that 16F84 had a 6-7 year head start.
Only time will overcome that.

Also novices are unaware that the 16F84 programmers be definition must be
more complex than the 16F628 programmer, due to lack of LVP. So they end up
spending a significant amount of time developing and debugging the tool
instead of getting to work.

Lastly many of those serial based programmers are defective because they
trust that the clamping diodes will clamp the excess voltage and that RS232
is going to operate out of spec with 0-5V only. Then you hear newbies wailing
about the fact that the programmer doesn't work.

>
> Some of the benefits we're preaching mean nothing to a newbie.
> If you want to flash LED's, more memory means nothing.  Hardware
> PWM, comparators and USARTs mean nothing to a newbie with a very
> simple goal in mind.

But it's the classic fallacy. Novices never stay novices. Projects very quickly
become more complex as the novice developer becomes more comfortable with the
environment.

So very soon after the blinky LED and the simple LCD interface, the novice
will start tacking projects where the additional timers and hardware are a
godsend.

>   It would be much easier to preach the
> benefits of using the 16F628 to a complete beginner if there were
> lots of support in place.  Don't tell them -- show them that it
> really is more popular.  That means we (PICsters who have a clue
> beyond the newbie level) need to start pushing 16F628 designs on
> the web.  Those of us with circuits on the web need to start
> converting the designs for the 16F628.  The Piclist pages need
> to be changed to indicate that the 16F628 is now the preferred
> chip and show sample circuits for that.  (When I started, I built
> a bunch of the projects under the Cheapic page, such as bincnt,
> eggtimer, binclock, etc, and those are all for the 16F84).

I'll do my part ;-)

BAJ

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