Having one heckuva time getting any sort of a programer going. After I stopped beating my head with the stupid stick I thought I had it working, but nope, no go. I've used Tait's FPP Programmer (windows) and picprog (linux -2.3c failed to work but 2.3d seems to run, but not proram) and one concern I have is the setup/test screens... those are showing the lines (pins) from the parallel port? So that's where I should be testing the voltage? One more thing, if I really screwed up on a circuit, could I fry the parallel port on the computer or do most systems have protection? Here's the reason I'm really posting, mapping the terms listed on the schematic for the TLVP to the real pins on a 16F628: TLVP 16F628 "Vdd" Pin 14 "Vdd" "Rb7/Data" Pin 13 "RB7/T1OSI" or Pin 7 "RB1/RX/DT"? * "RB6/Clk" Pin 12 "RB6/T1OSO/T1CKI" "MCLR/Vpp" Pin 4 "RA5/MCLR/THV" "RBX/PGM" Pin 10 "RB4/PGM" "OSC1/CLKIN" Pin 16 "RA7/OSC1/CLKIN" "Vss" Pin 5 "Vss" * Pin 7 is described as "USART receive pin/synchronous data I/O", and I've been using pin 13, that could my problem, but before I pull out the hair I have left I thought I'd confirm all this. Thanks, Jay Jacobs -- getting a little closer to "hello world" every day. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics