I second what David has said.

If I could offer my RF CAN modules for $5.95 I would too but between the
cost of boards, components and automated board stuffing I can't seem to
get cost down below about $99.  For an RF solution for hobbyists that's
too expensive.  For someone who wants CAN bus over RF and needs the peer
to peer networking via a SPI bus connection it's not a bad price.

John Dammeyer

Wireless CAN with the CANRF module.
http://www.autoartisans.com/documents/canrf_prod_announcement.pdf
Automation Artisans Inc.
Ph. 1 250 544 4950


> -----Original Message-----
> From: pic microcontroller discussion list
> [mailto:PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU] On Behalf Of David P. Harris
> Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2002 1:35 PM
> To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: [AD]: PIC16F877 Boot Loader Kit (International Shipping)
>
>
> Good for you Rubin -- nice to see someone take some
> initiative.  Just the fact you got
> all the parts together is useful.
> David
>
> Daniel Rubin wrote:
>
> > Rip Off... very interesting take on this?  I set the price
> for the kit at
> > what it would cost to purchase all the components single
> quantities.  If I
> > sold 1000 a week I could probably sell these kits for $13
> or $14 and do it
> > full time.  But that is not going to happen.  I don't want to waste
> > bandwidth on this thread, but I have to at least defend my
> kit from the 2
> > messages to the list stating this thing is a rip off..
> >
> > At Digikey:
> >
> > PIC16F877/20: $9.88
> > MAX232: $1.60
> > Resonator: $.81
> > LM7805: $.59
> > Reset Switch: $.49
> > Batter Clip: $.29
> > All other stuff: $.50
> >
> > That's just over $14.  If you add $5 for a serial cable (I
> dare you to find
> > one cheaper at your local computer store) that totals $19.
> >
> > If you did buy all of this from Digikey you would also have
> to add $5
> > handling fee to the order since it totalled under $25.
> >
> > I figured if I purchase this stuff in larger quantities I
> might be able to
> > make some money while saving others some time (see the
> story below).  It
> > turns out that I spend about 15 minutes putting this kit together in
> > programming/testing the PIC, cutting/bending the resonator socket,
> > stripping/soldering pins to the serial cable,
> sorting/packing all the
> > parts, printing the manual, writing the floppy, printing a
> shipping label
> > packing it all up.   I have tried to do it faster but it
> seems to always
> > take me just about a hour to get four of them ready to
> ship.   I make about
> > $7 on each kit I sell.  So the best I could do is $28 an
> hour and that is
> > assuming once the kit is shipped out I don't spend any more
> time on it..  I
> > only sell about 5 or 6 of these kits a week so that is an
> extra $35 a
> > week.  Not really worth the effort and the up front cost of
> the inventory.
> >
> > THE STORY
> >
> > If you don't want to read a long story about how this kit
> came about I
> > would just delete this message now.
> >
> > When I started with the PIC I purchased a 16F877 and a
> Warp-13 programmer
> > (very good product by the way) for the heart of a stepper
> > controller.   That set me back about $100.  Now I could
> program the PIC,
> > but I needed more parts to do anything else with it.
> >
> > I did some searching and determined I needed a crystal,
> voltage regulator,
> > some caps and resistors.   I went to radio shack and
> purchased everything
> > except the crystal (they had to order that and it would
> take over a week).
> > The parts I did purchase at radio shack cost over $5!  I
> would recommend
> > you use Radio Shack only as a last resort for anything.
> >
> > After more research I found that I could use a ceramic
> resonator instead of
> > a crystal and 2 caps.    Digikey had the part for less than
> $1 but they
> > have a minimum order of $25 unless you want to pay a $5
> handling fee.  I
> > did what any other electronics tinkerer would do and bought
> a bunch of
> > stuff I didn't really need to bring my order up to $25.
> The parts arrived
> > in 4 days and I was good to go.
> >
> > After playing around with MPLAB I realized that I would be
> doing a lot of
> > re-programming to get this thing right and I remembered
> reading about a
> > boot loader that allowed these chips to reprogram
> themselves.  I thought
> > that would be a great idea because I was already planning
> on using a serial
> > interface to talk to the controller and I would not need to
> move the PIC
> > back and forth from the development board to the Warp-13
> while learning how
> > to program the PIC.  I looked into it further and found the
> Microchip
> > application note AN732.  It described what I wanted to do,
> but used 2
> > precious pins for hardware flow control.  I figured I would
> modify it to
> > use some sort of software flow control after getting the
> example in that
> > application note working.
> >
> > By diving into this boot loader idea I realized, sooner
> rather than later,
> > I would need something like a MAX232 to connect the PIC to
> a PC.  Since
> > that chip is another part not available at the local Radio
> Shack I had to
> > buy another $25 worth of stuff at Digikey to get it.  It
> arrived and I set
> > it all up on my breadboard, created a MPLAB project and
> loaded up the
> > example code from the AN732.  Well that code did not work
> at all... It
> > drove me nuts because I didn't know if my circuit on the
> breadboard was
> > wrong or the code was just broken.  I dug into it further on the
> > net.  Turns out there is much more to serial communication
> on a PIC than
> > what is described in AN732.  After many more hours of
> frustration I finally
> > wrote serial routines that worked and got the thing to
> program itself using
> > software flow control.   I then worked on a simple c-based
> DOS program to
> > do the hexfile upload... another 4 hours of work... gotta
> hate DOS programming!
> >
> > So after over $150 and many hours of work I have finally
> had a boot loader
> > enabled PIC.
> >
> > When I got everything working I thought this might be a good idea to
> > package up save others some time.  It was not until after I
> got the motor
> > controller done I decided offer all of this work in kit
> form for a lot less
> > than what it cost me.
> >
> > - Dan
> >
> > At 07:36 AM 6/26/02 -0400, you wrote:
> > > > Hey, what a rip off.  Boot loaders are free, and its
> not hard for people
> > >to
> > > > find a pre-burned chip with one for a lot cheaper!
> > >
> > >There are certainly free ones out there, and it's not even
> that hard to
> > >write your own.  We have our own, although we don't give
> it away for free.
> > >I suspect he won't get any takers.
> > >
> > > > Also, This list is not
> > > > here for commercial purposes or your own financial gain!
> > >
> > >Actually, I think it is allowed as long as it's tagged
> with [AD], which it
> > >was.  I'm sure an admin will correct me if I'm wrong.
> > >
> > >In short, yes I agree its a ripoff which he will probably
> discover shortly.
> > >However, if you don't want these kinds of messages then
> its up to you to
> > >shut off the [AD] channel.  I wouldn't want to see one of
> these every day,
> > >but for now I find it entertaining.
> > >
> > >
> > >*****************************************************************
> > >Embed Inc, embedded system specialists in Littleton Massachusetts
> > >(978) 742-9014, http://www.embedinc.com
> > >
> > >--
> > >http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with
> ONE topic:
> > >[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other
> [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads
> >
> > -- Design Devices, http://www.designdevices.com
> > PIC microcontroller programmers & tools, motor controllers
> and more!  Ebay
> > Deals:
> >
> http://cgi6.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItem
s&userid=designdevices
>
> --
> http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
> [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads

--
http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic:
[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads