BBC? You're kidding - right? (From the country that pioneered socialism?) As to who is or isn't 'a socialist' the views expressed by several certainly seem to fall into that category. Those who would see someone, usually a government entity, perhaps the UN, oversee, regulate or control the fates and fortunes of others because they *perceive* certain possible social ills or perceive oppression or in-equitable trade in my book overwhelming deserve classification with that label. Do you have an objection to such 'clinical' use of the term? If so, why? Is it your background, training or experiences that attach a negative connotation to that term? If it makes you feel any better - you may call me a 'free trader' or 'a capitalist' and you will hear nary a whimper from me ... BTW, nice touch dissecting and commenting on only this single editorial, line by line, for the purposes of rendering certain parts 'nicely out of context' with the rest of the discussion that has taken place on this subject ... Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Russell McMahon" To: Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2002 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [OT]: $1-a-day wages > > It seem that most of the socialists on this list > > Interesting. Have you mayhaps a socialist detector there :-) ? > I would have great difficulty being sure (or even fairly confident) that a > particular opinion here was being expressed by a Socialist. I imagine that > you are not falling into the trap of labelling people XYZalists because they > are expressing an opinion different than your own or attempting to discern > "truth' in an admittedly muddy arena. Do my views trigger your Socialist > detector? I would not so label myself but I'm happy enough to wear the label > if it helps someone else understand me. Trouble is, most labels are more > useful in helping us categorise others so that we can reject them rather > than try to see things from theor perspective. > > > think these changes occur instantly > > Interestingly, I haven't concluded that anyone who has posted on this thread > so far holds this opinion. I suspect that even the most starry eyed amongst > us is well enough versed in the real world that they know what it takes to > change things. Are you *seriously* suggesting people think this ? > > > and as if the 'norm' has been THE NORM since time immortal > > this is liable to be truer. It's easy to fall into the trap of thinking > history only extends as far as our unsupported memories will reach. > > >- and that ALL societies ought to be changed NOW, > > are you suggesting that desirable changes that COULD be achieved "now" > SHOULDN'T be achieved "now" ? Why? > > > as if a switch could be thrown and all things made 'right'. > > This is risking confusing what "ought" to be done with what "can" be done. > The two seldom match exactly. The problem with the above argument is that it > encourages people (not necessarily the writer) to argue (or rather, act) > along the lines "This should be done but it can't be done now so I don't > need to do it now so I don't need to do anything". > > There are, of course, no "could" or "should" or "right' without absolute > terms of reference. If one does not acknowledge the existence of absolutes > (even if they exist)(or of they don't) then one can skip from one argument > or defence to the next and, if there are no absolutes, that is indeed an > entirely valid thing to do, for on what grounds is anyone to say otherwise. > In the absence of absolutes I (and we all) have no obligations to anyone > else, be they kin or countryman or person_somewhere_far_away, EXCEPT that > which they can compel us to have. Which is in recent times a sore point > indeed and two other topics (almost) entirely. > > > And that seems to be how TV news seems to portray it too ... > > Just turn it off (or watch BBC) :-) > > > Russell McMahon > > -- > http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! > email listserv@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body > > -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listserv@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body