Several weeks ago I tried to make the El Cheapo to work and got on this list several suggestions. Here is a quick follow-up: Eventually I could make El Cheapo to work but it was extremely unreliable. It could complete a 16F84 programming only once in 20 or so tries. I tried a bunch of suggestions but nothing fix the problem. Few days ago I ordered a P16PRO40 (14$ kit, 18$ assembled) and it works just great (I am using the free software ic-prog). This is a very straight forward design that interfaces properly with the parallel port signals and does not suffer from the El Cheapo sensitivity to parallel port variations. Bottom line is, 'cheaper' is not always better. Sometimes saving a 50c chip may be pretty expensive. Tal -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads