Hi Matt, I quite agree. An if you decide to save space and use the vertical ones the 1..6 pinout is reversed. That caught an engineer friend of mine. I tried to program the units and they wouldn't. Some troubleshooting and we found the problem and made up a special 4" cable. Aarrrrggghh. However, they are nice wiping contacts, are easy to slip in and out and I went back to them after trying the molex keyed locking connectors. Like I said earlier, for some boards they are easy to use, for others there are other options. For one project I'd like to fabricate a bed of nails tester/programmer panel. Does anyone have any experience with those spring like pins. Where to get small qty, what size holes to install into. Etc. Thanks. John Dammeyer > >My PIC16F877 CAN Activity board uses the RJ connector. >=20 > I hate RJ type connectors. They take up a ton of PC board space > for so few connections. Cables (good ones at least) for them are > kind of a pain to obtain/make too, unless you want to use > Cat3/Cat5 cable and tools. >=20 > Just my 2=A2... >=20 > Matt Pobursky > Maximum Performance Systems >=20 > -- Wireless CAN with the CANRF module. http://www.autoartisans.com/documents/canrf_prod_announcement.pdf Automation Artisans Inc. Ph. 1 250 544 4950 -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads