Myke thanks for response. 1/ Voltage levels. I don't remember the precise levels, although they were comfortably within your limits. I think the MCLR level was about 13.1V and Vdd 5.1V. I can check these again if necessary ?? 2/ Windows 98SE 3/ The El Cheapo Verified OK The other programmer was a homebult serial port device, of an anonymous web design, running with Pix software. It confirmed the first byte of the El Cheapo programmed (and verified) PIC was zero and the rest were blank (3FFF). It successfully programmed the PIC which ran in the breadboard, with the same Hex file. The process was repeated several times to confirm everything. Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "myke predko" To: Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 11:17 PM Subject: Re: [PIC]:El Cheapo fails with Ledon + 16F84 Hi Ken, Sorry I've been quiet - I got nailed yet again with a virus on my home mail server (I think I'm going to go from Win2K to Linux *very* shortly). This is the forth time this year - sigh. You may get this email from me twice because I'm putting it on both the PICList as well as sending it to you directly. In any case, could you please drop me a line with the following information: 1. What were the voltage levels of the PCB when you went through the test steps? 2. What operating system are you running? 3. Did you "Verify" the programming from the programmer? What about the borrowed programmer? Let's see if we can get you running, myke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Evans" To: Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 3:50 PM Subject: [PIC]:El Cheapo fails with Ledon + 16F84 Hi Everyone I have just embarked on using PICs having been a die-hard Analog guy for years (more than I care to mention !). For my sins I have got hold of Myke Predko's huge tome on the subject, partly because of the inclusion of the El Cheapo programmer (programer), and have slowly been battling my my through it. Having built the El Cheapo (and then again with the latest mods), and updated the software to 0.77, it flies through all the debug routines with ease. The problem is that when I program the 16F84 with the Ledon.hex which simulated great in MPLAB, it fails miserably in the breadboard. It does nothing in fact but show clock activity. The same hex code used with a borrowed programmer works great when plugged in to the circuit. This anonymous machine seems to read the PIC programmed on the El Cheapo as empty program space. What next ? Any help here would be greatfully received. thanks for listening Ken -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList mailto:piclist-unsubscribe-request@mitvma.mit.edu -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.