Well, Ok then. >From: Byron A Jeff >Reply-To: pic microcontroller discussion list >To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU >Subject: Re: [PIC]: Please help rookie with these two questions >Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 23:13:36 -0500 > >On Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 02:50:38PM -0700, Shawn Mulligan wrote: > > I agree that the 16F84 is an excellent chip to begin with. > >I disagree. > > > It comes in a > > small package which fits nicely on a prototype board. > >The 16F628 comes in exactly the same package. > > >It is very well supported and easy to use. > >The 16F628 runs everything the 16F84 does with very minor modifications. > > > Programmers can be built easily by a beginner, > > using very few components. > >By utilizing low voltage programming, even simpler programmers with even >fewer >components can be built for the 16F628. > >Other than the fact that the existing 16F84 codebase obviously runs >unmodified >on 16F84s, there is absolutely no advantage to using a 16F84 over a 16F628. > >A lot of times begenners tend to focus on the starting line because that's >all they've seen. However anyone that sticks with it won't stay a beginner >and will start to tackle more challenging projects. The additional hardware >support of the 16F628 (USART, PWM, capture/compare, multiple timers, more >all around memory) will assist anyone who proceed beyond the basic blinky >LED >type projects. > >And it cost less. $6 for the 16F84A-20/P, $3.88 for the 16F628-20/P on >Digikey. > >Can anyone explain to me any advantage of the 16F84 over the 16F628 for >a beginner who hasn't purchased parts yet? Other than the sole reason I >listed >above? > >I truly think it's a disservice to advocate beginners starting in a smaller >box simply due to inertia. Simply put a beginner will have to learn more on >a >16F84 to get over the initial hump. Hardware generally simplifies code. >Less >hardware requires more complex code. Hardware can asyncronously handle >tasks without constant code intervention. Software often requires syncrony >and polling to keep track. Then it gets complicated by the fact that the >16F84 >only has one timer, one puny 8 bit timer. > >I advocate the better part. > >BAJ > > > > Realistically, for $50 - $100 you could purchase > > a couple of PICs, an LCD, keypad, LED's, support components and a few >good > > books. I would recommend Easy PIC'n and PIC'n Up the Pace. After you >gain > > some experience you might try Myke Predko book -- it's excellent to, yet >it > > may be too advanced for the absolute beginner. With a degree in computer > > science, I find some of Myke's algorithms and approaches quite clever, >yet > > certainly not intuitive. The Easy PIC'n series doesn't attempt to >optimize > > code size or efficiency at the expense of clarity -- however >successfully > > manages to present many interesting projects and tutorials. That's my >two > > cents worth. > > Shawn > > > > > > >From: Pic Dude > > >Reply-To: pic microcontroller discussion list > > >To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU > > >Subject: Re: [PIC]: Please help rookie with these two questions > > >Date: Sat, 23 Mar 2002 15:31:31 -0600 > > > > > >A slightly different perspective... > > > > > >As a rookie myself, I believe that the 16F84 is a great chip to > > >start with, because there are lots of sample projects/code out on > > >the web to pick things up quickly. You can just copy, compile > > >and test, then experiment with the code. At a few bucks each, > > >cost isn't much of a factor. > > > > > >And if they're becoming obsolete, then perhaps they're less > > >than a few bucks now? > > > > > >Get a very simple 16F84 programmer or get one that will handle > > >16F84 + others you think you will need. I built a simple Tait > > >programmer and there was a simple wiring difference to handle > > >the 16F872's when I started playing with those. > > > > > >Good beginning info and books... > > > http://www.piclist.com/techref/piclist/begin.htm > > > > > >Cheers, > > >-Neil. > > > > > > > > >----- Original Message ----- > > >From: "Byron A Jeff" > > >To: > > >Sent: Saturday, March 23, 2002 2:23 PM > > >Subject: Re: [PIC]: Please help rookie with these two questions > > > > > > > > > > On Sat, Mar 23, 2002 at 02:01:45PM -0500, Jim Martin wrote: > > > > > First: What beginner's book do you recommend for entry level PIC > > > > > programming for the 16F84? > > > > > > > > It's best to skip the 16F84. Microchip has pretty much succeeded in > > >obsoleting > > > > it with the features and price of the 16F627 and 16F628 chips. It's > > >better > > > > to start there. > > > > > > > > I don't have a book recommendation for you unfortunately. There are >any > > >number > > > > of online tutorials that'll get you started. I'm partial to Myke > > >Predko's > > > > online stuff. You can find a couple of introductory articles here: > > > > > > > > http://www.rentron.com/Myke3.htm > > > > http://www.rentron.com/Myke5.htm > > > > > > > > There are also several dozen other PIC related articles on the site > > >here: > > > > > > > > http://www.rentron.com/pic.htm > > > > > > > > I'd like to add a couple of comments related to the 16F84 to >16F627/8 > > >upgrade. > > > > First is that if the application isn't time sensitive (such as an > > >asyncronous > > > > serial interface) that the internal RC oscillator of the 16F627/8 > > >preludes > > > > having to use an external oscillator or resonator. Next is that one >must > > >be > > > > acutely aware that one of the best new features of the 16F627/8 is >the > > >onboard > > > > hardware USART. This means that one doesn't have to implement >software > > >UARTs > > > > by hand. I find that a lot of 16F84 tutorials spend a lot of time > > >discussing > > > > how to build software serial routines for RS-232. The next thing is >that > > > > the 16F627/8 family along with the 16F87X family are low voltage > > >programmable > > > > so very cheap and simple programmers can be utilized to get started > > >quickly. > > > > My Trivial Low Voltage Programmer (TLVP) is a $10, afternoon project > > >that'll > > > > get you in the game quickly. Last on my list is that for programming > > >hardware > > > > USART the best software/tutorial going is Fr. Thomas McGahee's >PICUART > > >code. > > > > I've seen problems dowloading it from his site > > >(http://mcgahee.freeservers.com) > > > > so I've made a copy available from my PIC site where the TLVP lives: > > > > > > > > http://www.finitesite.com/d3jsys > > > > > > > > Also you can find a description os Myke's book "Programming and > > >Customizing > > > > PICmicro Microcontrollers" on his site at http://www.myke.com where >he > > >has > > > > a online chapter for your perusal. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Second: Is the 16F876 code-compatible with the 16F84? Just >wondering > > >if I > > > > > should start with the '876 instead of the F84. > > > > > > > > I think you can pretty much get a consensus not to start with the >16F84. > > >Yes > > > > the 16F87X series is code compatible with the 16F84 and will port >over > > >with > > > > a very few caveats such as variable starting address and that PORTA > > >starts > > > > in analog mode instead of digital mode. > > > > > > > > But starting with the 16F84 means playing catchup later. There's >much > > >less > > >of > > > > a jump from the 16F62X family to the 16F87X chips. > > > > > > > > Hope this gives you some insight. > > > > > > > > BAJ > > > > > > > > -- > > > > http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE >topic: > > > > [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: >->Ads > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-- > > >http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: > > >[PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! 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