Wow, he must not want to sell much. I was going to order a starter kit from him, just so I didn't have to run around town finding all the right stuff. He talked me out of it. I ended up spending a couple hundred at Gateway Electronics anyway! (but it wasn't ALL board related.) I just didn't want to get in the middle of something and wish I had just one more thing. Cliff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pic Dude" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 3:59 PM Subject: Re: [EE]: Making PCBs... (was: Re: Re: [OT]: re: Making PCBs...) Cool, but ouch. Just called them after seeing your email and the guy was telling me that it would be expensive -- some few hundred dollars just for tooling. He'll get back to me with something more official though. I thought about the scotchtape but wasn't sure if I should left the tape touch side 1 while side 2 was being exposed. Cheers, -Neil. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cliff Griffin" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 5:27 PM Subject: Re: [EE]: Making PCBs... (was: Re: Re: [OT]: re: Making PCBs...) > Injectorall has some good info on their web site--they make photo-resist > boards. http://www.injectorall.com/pckits.htm I talked to the guy on the > phone, and he suggested using a hole punch to put some holes in vacant > places on the board, and use scotch tape to secure it to the board. That > prevents it from slipping after you have it aligned. > > Cliff > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Pic Dude" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 3:14 PM > Subject: [EE]: Making PCBs... (was: Re: Re: [OT]: re: Making PCBs...) > > > This email is about making PCB's... no, really! So the subject tag > has been changed. Experiences, tips and questions within. Long > email, so excuse the shorthand english, which in some circles may > be referred to as "nano-english". :-) > > (1) Toner-transfer: Good. Need some practice, though. Definitely for > one-offs. > > (2) Datak incandescent-resist. Having probs sourcing these. Datak's web > site claims Austin dealers, but dealers say no more. Other dealers only > have remnants left (no discounts), not sure which, and are dropping the > Datak line. Still looking. > > (3) So I splurged $32 for the MG UV lamp. Also picked up one > photo-resist board and developer. Result: 98.273% perfect. > > (3a) First tricky part was lining up the transparency with the PCB. > It just kept slipping when I put the lexan over it. (If it were the Datak > boards, I would've ruined it after taking so long to get it right.) So I > thought of a good way to line these up. Other than the "envelope" > technique a la Mike Harrison, a piece of scrap board in an "L"-shape > can be stuck to the inside of the envelope. The board to be etched > would then be slipped in the middle until it's corner nestles neatly in > the inside-corner of the "L". Perhaps I should get royalties for > this idea? > > (3b) Another thing I thought of was to get some mirrors and > expose both sides at the same time. Why? Cause even after > marking the board so I know how to align side 2 after etching > side 1, I lost it and had to think carefully and pray a lot. Luckily > I got it right. Anyone have a simple mirror setup you can > explain? If not, I expect royalties for this idea too. :-) > > (3c) Instructions: 5 mins min exposure. Me: 1 side @ 8 mins, > other @ 11 mins. After developing, few fading traces on one side, > and the other has an light-blue shady region. Fading traces fixed > with etch-resist pen -- easy. Other became a noticeable prob > after etching as there was unwanted copper in an area approx > 1/4" dia. I just scraped that off with a knife. > > (3d) So this was successful, and nice, but I need practice. > > (4) Was looking at PCB services and thinking that I would like > to use them someday. However, the ones I've found are steep. > Custom PCB's prices are not bad (DIY) service, but they are > not setup for this now (ran out of positive process chemicals). > Doh! Plus the Malaysia thing is odd. Express PCB is okay, > though I'd prefer to get less (eg: no holes) and pay less. > Advanced circuits is very expensive for 1 or 2 boards. > > Any other recommendations? My prefs would be 2 sides, no > soldermask or screen, and NO holes. I would panelize/array > and scoring would be nice, but not necessary. Thru-plating > doesn't apply w/no holes, and any board type/thickness is fine. > Again, biggest priority is a price that can me measured in > femto-dollars. :-) > > Cheers, > -Neil. > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Michael Vinson" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2002 2:19 PM > Subject: Re: [OT]: re: Making PCBs... > > > > Herbert Graf wrote: > > >Hmm, AFAIK electrons DO have angular momentum, in the macro world we live > > >in > > >that means spin, is it different in the quantum world? > > > > In a word, yes. Quantum spin exhibits the phenomenon known as > > "space quantization", meaning that if you choose an axis and > > measure the "spin" angular momentum of, say, an electron about > > that axis, you will always get + or - 1/2 of Planck's constant. > > If you think about it, that is really weird. What if you had > > chosen an axis at 45 degrees from the first one? Then classically > > you would expect to measure 1/sqrt(2) of the value you got from > > the first axis, but in fact you will STILL get only + or - 1/2 > > of Planck's constant. There is no classical model of literal > > spinning that will have this behavior. Thus physicists give up > > on trying to think of the electron as a little "chunk of stuff" > > and just accept that things are different in the subatomic world. > > > > Michael V > > > > Thank you for reading my little posting. > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at > http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. > > > > -- > > http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: > > [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads > > > > > > > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: > [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: > [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads > > > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads