I've read the websites that say you have to use ISP and ground pin 10. I still can't get it to download using either MPLAB or Warp-13 native software. I've tried 3 of the 25 chips I just bought and none of them will program. Any suggestions before all my hair is on the floor? Barry -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listserv@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body