Reading through the In Circuit Serial Programming document I found that the max program time for the modern flash chips (f62x, f87x) is 5 ms instead of the 10 ms for the older chips (16x84). Nice, I can make my programmer faster. But there is also a typical programming type of 2 ms. What is the use of that spec? I am not aware of a way to check that the cycle is finished, so I will have to wait the worst case 5 ms, or am I missing something. Another programming question: the document shows ID word values. Are these values - flash (writeable) or read-only - if writeable: must they be set to the listed value or are they just there for a programmer to detect trhe type of chip? Wouter van Ooijen -- Van Ooijen Technische Informatica: http://www.voti.nl Jal compiler, Wisp programmer, WLoader bootloader, PICs kopen -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics