I just downloaded and Eagle and started using it. It might ahve helped that I had virtually no previous experience in circuit capture or PCB design. (IMHO using Vutrax does not count as such) I found Eagle very easy to understand, which is just as well, beuase the help and tutorial are absolutely useless (they talk about a sort of command line interface that has no relation with the mouse interface). Still a very good product for the hobbyist, especially considering the price ;) Wouter -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList mailto:piclist-unsubscribe-request@mitvma.mit.edu