I think very highly of CADINT. They now have a free version which is good for up to 250 pins. In fact, you are using the paid for version with a license good for 250 pins. That license is free. You can download the most current version from both www.cadint.com and www.cadint.se . You will have to fill out a little form to get it but they don't spam you or sell your email address. Be sure to also download the manual and tutorial - these are not included in the main download. If you decide you like the package enough to upgrade to the pay version, they have several options available. The high end is fairly pricey but I feel it is serious bang for the buck. Note that the only thing that changes when you upgrade is the license file and passwords. You still keep the same program you were using with the free license. In a nutshell: 250 pins - downloaded: free 250 pins - shipped on CD: $10 non-commercial - 500 pins: $90 Other variants are available. dwayne Dwayne Reid Trinity Electronics Systems Ltd Edmonton, AB, CANADA (780) 489-3199 voice (780) 487-6397 fax Celebrating 18 years of Engineering Innovation (1984 - 2002) .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .-. .- `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' `-' Do NOT send unsolicited commercial email to this email address. This message neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads