Your list sounds like an Ivex ad, with the exception of mixing units of measurement. It is one that I use, and while I can do almost inifinitely fine pitch with it, the DRC function works OK, Editing library files works to the point of generating them from scratch if desired, etc... it is a 16 bit application that likes to crash frequently on newer than Win 3.1 platforms. Now that I have invested in lots of pin capacity and have finally (after >5 yrs) learned how most settings should be, it should be smooth sailing, right? Wrong. Every time I do a new board (I only do 10 to 12 per yr) I find some new setting that isn't documented anywhere that causes me to bactrack and double or triple my effort. The problems always turn up when generating Gerbers. That's why I like the idea of a list of real reviews from real users. All these packages are sold according to the old expression "buyer beware". It's sort of like buying a car - if you don't inquire about possible limitations, nobody will tell you. If you do, nobody will know. To me that's a big clue that collective research would be helpful. We need a "Consumer's Reports" for tech tools. Eagle Pro may be great, but I get nervous because of the lack of visible documentation, and the frequency of requests for help with on this list. What's the deal, it's not supported otherwise? How sorry will I be if I adjust my budget for something like the big Cadence or OrCAD packages? The price tags sure are painful....but if they really do what they are supposed to - always.....the cost just might be justifiable. It's a big jump (of faith) between the cost of Ivex and Eagle up to the real pro aps, made even bigger by the current economy.... I think I'll check the USF bookstore to see what the Eng. dep't has on the list there. EDU copies are usually fully loaded at a great cost... Does anyone recall the recent posting from someone who was gloating about a 'new' CAD tool they were using? CL We are both standing on the same iceberg. I am concerned that eagle is hobby too. My super duper wish list; Design rule checking copper fill advanced editting of library symbols back/forward anotate very fine pitch (getting into TSSOP) ease of mixing metric and imperial multi-page project grouping bill of material generation Of course, add the word 'better' in front of each item, as my current system, ProCAD, has these but they are flawed to one degree or another. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads