Is there any way to predict the smallest reasonable PCB that can contain a given set of parts? Lay out a dummy board in any Electronic CAD ap, without specifying the full schematic. In other words, draw a schematic with no connections, capture it with your CAD ap, and either lay it out with spacings that you feel comfortable with from experience, or do a rough placement and use a board density check -then- adjust your size and spacings until the check shows you're within a density value range that your earlier designs seem to fall into. I guess the other possible answers are: Ater you have done too many board designs, you'll be able to guess right almost every time - so just practice, practice, practice. Also; Draw your desired board outline first and just MAKE everything fit inside it. But I wouldn't give these last two as legitimate replies... Chris ps: Generally when I post something like this, someone comes up with a nice clean formula to use shortly thereafter... c -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listserv@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body