Just wanted to give y'all an update. Both PICs were good ... as proven by my NoPPP programmer. Pretty sad to blow $60 bucks on a programmer and book (book was about useless too), when I built the NoPPP in two days (lunch breaks) and it works! Oh well. Thanks for the all advice guys (and/or gals). I may try to trouble shoot the first programmer sometime. Now, I need to get back to my program, which I finally get to see has some bugs. :( Thanks again, ATM __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Make a great connection at Yahoo! Personals. http://personals.yahoo.com -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads