Ah well - James says it's OK so ... I am a friend of the US, approve of its higher ideals, (while dismayed by some of its deeds) and much saddened by the events of the last few days. For this reason I disagree with what Ron when he says - > My friends, it's time to stop playing by gentleman's rules. The murderer > wins over the pickpocket. We need to strike pre-emptively in a massive > pro-active campaign to exterminate every last vestige of these irretrievable > madmen from every corner of the globe. Alas, this is how the terrorists will win. This plays directly into their hands. Democracy and freedom DEMAND that you make it more possible for your enemy to hurt you than it is for you to hurt them. When a free country starts resorting to the tactics of their enemies then they have started down the path to becoming that which they fight against. And ALL democracies do it. None stand exempt. The freedoms which we all value so highly are in part won by dark and untenable deeds worked on our behalves. The challenge to stay free and democratic on behalf of the citizens of the whole world is a worthy one and not one worth throwing away for the sake of a few thosand - maybe even tens of thousands - innocents. As hard as that may feel. Be strong - yes. But if we want eg China to be like the US 30 years from now and not the other way around then concepts such as "stop playing by gentleman's rules.", "pre-emptive strike" and "pro-active campaign" must be shunned. Removing "every last vestige" is not only impossible but will both guarantee the deaths of a significant number of innocent people elsewhere and also provide more justification for the Eastern countries to (often justifiably) hate the US still more. > And, as a final note: Bleeding heart liberals, go the hell home. You're > USELESS. This is not, I think, bleeding heart liberalism. This is (I think) a desire to protect what you (including Ron) value most. Play by the declared rules of the system that you wish to preserve, even if it handicaps you unfairly, or descend little by maybe-not-so-little into a repressive fascist state. > Proud and Furious Citizen of the USA Lover of all the people of the world Russell McMahon -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listserv@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body