I must say that I am impressed by the restraint shown on this list even by people who have been there and done that and who harbor the scars of it. On more than one side... We bitch more about RS232 to TTL conversion than we do about loss of human minds. I'm happy to see that all the people who have commented have shared an abhorrence of violence and killing and war even when they are willing to accept that it is sometimes the least of all possible evils. If it were the only ability I had, would not hesitate to kill the terrorist to save the passengers and target and I would kill the passengers to save the rest, etc... But I would give my life to know a way to stop it without killing anyone. Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. I haven't been happy with the way we handled Iraq. I felt incompetent when I was floating around in the Gulf, and I feel that our handling of the issue, although I don't know how, just couldn't have been the best we could do. A tortured alley cat, with a fever in its brain, backed into a corner and beaten to teach it not to steal. There is no good way to solve that problem. I served proudly and I'm damn proud of the work my fellow service men did, but I still can not express the pain I felt at seeing secondary explosions from our surgical strikes on ammo dumps blowing apart school yards and houses. Honor does not a solution make. I would caution that communication and openness and explanation are also a difficult but necessary part of any better future. I'm not going to stop anyone who wants to talk about this on the list as long as it is marked [OT]: and spoken with the goal of understanding at its heart. We are a group that solves problems, talks about "a better way" all the time, and we have a good set of brains on our collective head. I doubt that we can solve this problem in any period of time, but we sure should try to understand, listen, commiserate, put our thoughts forward with humility and hope that some small good can come of it. James Newton, PICList Admin #3 mailto:jamesnewton@piclist.com 1-619-652-0593 phone http://www.piclist.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Kendall To: Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 12:56 Subject: Re: [OT]: Attack Having lived overseas for 6 years in Japan and Philippines. Having been to the middle east, in the desert, and the far east. Having seen foreign military in the desert having anal sex with each other after raping their fellow military members. The muslims that kill the christians because of their religious believes. The dictators. The corrupt. The ignorant. The un-educated. The evil and crazy that are unchecked.The people programed by the propoganda from their government and controlled newsmedia. I can say that I'm truly proud to be a free American. Name one "free" country that is not treated with respect by the USA. The USA treats other countries with diplomacy, justice, and when necessary they instill fear. The other countries should rightly fear the might and power of the United States. I'll remember not to talk to you on this list, that's for sure. ETC(SW/AW) Mike Kendall USN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gabriel Caffese" To: Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 8:27 PM Subject: Re: [OT]: Attack Yes, you are right. But I have been praying before, for the children that everyday die in Africa, South America, and all over the world, and for whom the United States have done nothing but letting them die. Of course, when the USA senda guns for inciting an internal war in a 3rd world country, you won4t see it in TV. To many people dies in these internal wars. Remember that USA supported all the military revolts in South Amirica (in Chile, Argentina, Brazil, Uruguay, etc, etc, etc,....) in the 704s. Well, I pray for ALL the people that dies everyday. Ehh...another thing...: Why do you think that terrorism attacks the USA, and doesn4t attack to Burkina Faso, or Paraguay, or Costa Rica (where 15 days before 40 children died of hunger, and no country did anything for them, and they are 4000km away from USA), or Uruguay, or....... ----- Original Message ----- From: Sean H. Breheny To: Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 12:44 PM Subject: [OT]: Attack > Hello fellow listmembers, > > I know religious messages are normally taboo, but please pray (or at least > think of) the people, and the families of the people, who have died in > today's attack on the World Trade Center, Pentagon, and possibly related > 747 crash near Pittsburgh. Please also pray that there will not be any > additional attacks. > > Sean > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > NetZero Platinum > Only $9.95 per month! > Sign up in September to win one of 30 Hawaiian Vacations for 2! > http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different > ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. > > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.