Y'know, with all this talk about optical sensors, keep this in mind: Cutting grass is a dirty job. If you are not careful, any optical sensor is going to soon be covered in gook. I nixed several ideas for optical grass height gauging, concrete sensing, edge sensing etc. after watching the bits of juicy stick grass flying all around a mower. That's why I keep coming back to my axiom - Cochroach Stupid! or Keep It Simple Stupid! Cochroaches have feelers that are more use than their eyes, if they even have eyes. -- Lawrence Lile Sr. Project Engineer Salton inc. Toastmaster Div. 573-446-5661 Voice 573-446-5676 Fax -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics