Hi all, Sorted it out! After replacing the oscillator, the problem remained, so I started looking elsewhere. In the end I found it. It retrospect the mistake was obvious. The design prototype was built on stripboard but lack of space up top required a wire link, which for the sake of simplicity I had created with some under board wiring. The only problem was one of these wires had pocket through the PCB and touched the wire connecting the PIC to the crystal. The heat of the soldering had melted the insulation, shorting the wire (which was +ve) to the oscillator. If I pushed of pulled the crystal this seperated the two wires by just enough to break the short and allow the crystal to oscillate. So infact, this had nothing to do with oscillators and more to do with avoiding under-board wiring. One of those mistakes where looking back it seems so obvious (like when I spent two hours debugging code only to find I'd put movlw 12 instead of d'12').... Ben -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads