>> Why can't the level converter be on a programming dongle, instead of = on the >> target board. > >Point taken. However how do you manage the situation where the = programmer >dongle and the USART target use differering interface technologies? Like >the MIDI example above or the EIA-485 thread that's currently under = discussion. Easy - the programming interface interfaces RS232 to MIDI (or whatever) levels.=20 >I guess I just feel really strongly in my gut that a bootloader that = uses >unique standard equipment is bothersome. If there were two USARTS I = probably >wouldn't be so annoyed. The beauty of the Pic's self-programming system is that you can reprogram with whatever interfaces a product has - I've used it on an infra-red interface to reprogram an environmentally sealed product. You could even reprogram over MIDI protocols if you really wanted to, e.g. if you wanted your customers to be able to reprogram in the field. As reprogramming will usually be a fairly rare, knocing up a RS232 to MIDI (level only) converter is a small price to pay for the flexibility that ICP provides. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.