I am somewhat convinced that traffic engineering is the art of making every path from point A to point B equally inconvenient. Of course, it's probably because the engineers are saddled with insane road commission and other legal requirements done ostensibly for our own good but just ends up frustrating everyone. There's one shop I go to somewhat regularly that is a commercial zone, surrounded by residential zones, the only way to get there is to drive 5 to 10 miles through 25 MPH areas with a bad mishmash of one way roads, the roads that have traffic signals have poor light timings and many goofy road routings, into a six way intersection. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: michael brown [snip] -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listserv@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body