Well Said, Michael Brown. I applaud you. And any sense of fairness is sympathetic to your analysis. ----- Original Message ----- From: "michael brown" To: Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 6:39 PM Subject: Fw: The Road to Ruination. > James Newton thoughtfully offered: > > >You want this "job" you can have it Bob. I'm sure you will do fine and > show > >a much more even and fair hand than I. But are you committed enough to the > >list to do what it takes? Have you spent the time to build an FAQ? Setup > >and Archive? Host it? Police the list? Bring constant unmarked Off Topics > and > >flame wars to almost a dead stop? I could sure use some help, are you > >volunteering? > > I tried to stay out of this, but I can no longer resist. > > Here we all go down the road to ruin. It starts with non-retractable > statements like this. Off list correspondence splattered all over the list > and other grievous claims which are largely imagined. It will continue with > even more permanent hard feelings and ugly verbiage. It will end with > shattered friendships and a smaller list with possibly a new admin. Why? Is > this all necessary? Has anyone really been wronged here? I submit that no > one has suffered any real damage. However, we all shortly will. > > I see two groups of people here. One who somehow thinks that information > that was publicly posted is still some kind of personal possession. Another > who doesn't really give a damn, but is willing to become heatedly involved > for the cause. Most of the argument here seems to be over the potential > possibility of something that hasn't even happened yet. It looks to me like > a scapegoat has already been chosen. > > How many people here have taken a piece of code, a technique, or even an > idea that was offered to the list and used it for personal pecuniary > interests? Who here hasn't begged, borrowed, or stolen something from the > archive, the internet, or even a book and modified it for personal use. How > many times was credit given or royalty paid for the information. I would > imagine that the closest anyone came to this was to say, "hey, thanks for > the info, it really got me out of a jam". Often, I see that this is not > even what occurs as usually the threads end without leaving a clue as to > whether the problem is solved or not. We all can safely deduce that the > problem was either solved or the guy left because of "insult poisoning". > > This list is a cooperative. Everyone here is in it for one simple reason. > They have a need and this list fulfills that need. Who here (besides James) > feels that this has been a personal burden on them, and wishes that they had > never partook of it? Does anyone think that they have put more into the > list than they have received from it? Everyone here depends upon this list, > simply because where else are you going to find 2000 technical brains to > pick for free? > > The bottom line here is that James is in control of the list. He is the > "supreme entity" in charge. He is being accused of a "travesty" that hasn't > even been proven. He says that he has no intention of profiting from the > list, doesn't he deserve the benefit of the doubt until he or someone else > proves otherwise? Even if he does collect up some stuff and sell it, are we > all to be pissed because we didn't think of it first. > > > This is not intended to pick a side, but here goes anyway. Lets go through > some basic facts: > > Having had personal experience in this arena, I can attest that managing a > venture such as the piclist is allot more trouble than most of you might > imagine. Believe me, this is a thankless, time consuming, pain in the ass > job that you don't want to do. Witness the people whining about the digest > and the "tragic loss of convenience" that they are currently suffering. > This kind of "job" requires countless hours of upkeep. Is anyone paying him > for his troubles? > > People have posted information to a "Public Forum". Surely, no one thought > the information was going to remain some kind of "secret" that would never > leak to the outside world. > > James has not been proven to have sold anything for a profit. However, as I > said earlier, many others quite probably have pilfered the archives for > information that was put to use for personal monetary gain. Sounds like a > case of lets kill the messenger because we don't like the message. > > Your e-mail addresses are probably worth far more to James (as saleable > items) than any piece of code contained in the archive. Has anyone here > been inundated with spam relating to engineering, if so, it sure looks like > it didn't start from here. Consider yourselves lucky, as not too many > places that have your e-mail address are keeping it a secret. If you all > will simply read the next privacy statement that you encounter when entering > into a contractual agreement of some kind, you will discover that they are > reserving the full and complete right to gather any and all pieces of > personal, demographic information on you and then offering them up for sale > to the highest bidder (although they call them affiliates so as not to upset > you). Most privacy statements are simply there to mislead you into a false > sense of security, since they always start off by stating how your private > information will NEVER shown to anyone EXCEPT...................... The > exceptions are both wide and varied. > > > Does everyone here pursue those other "heinous violators of privacy" that > you encounter in every aspect of dealings with other business entities, with > the same diligence and vengeance that I am seeing here? I suspect not. > > I, for one, would not like to see this list destroyed or permanently > damaged over perceived problems. I have mined vast amounts of knowledge and > personal experiences from this list, and I suspect that others have too. I > have really enjoyed the OT threads that have caused much debate and > stimulation of brain cells. I have not enjoyed this one tiny bit. > > Please feel free to flame me if I have, again, stepped on any toes. I will > give them all the consideration they so richly deserve. > > Michael Brown > Instant Net Solutions > www.KillerPCs.net > > "In the land of the blind, he who has one eye is king" > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different > ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. > > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.