Roman, for the 2,745th time, that form only requires an email address. You gave that when you joined this list. The rest is OPTIONAL. How can that be objectionable? As I have said many times now, I have no immediate plans to sell anything. I just put a note in the form as a way of being up front and honest that I might do something with the archive in the future. Believe me, I have been asked many time to produce a CD for people who have poor internet connections and I have not done so because A) I don't have time B) I didn't want to get into this "Its ok for me to post to a public forum, but you can't recoup your costs in distributing it" argument. At some point I DO intend to publish (at cost, not for profit) the contents of the FAQ on a CD or zip for download and offline use. It strikes me as a form of elitism that no one has a problem with people reading the archive or site if they have internet access, but that those who don't, or for whom it costs a great deal, or is very slow, publication in other media is not allowed? The only difference is that other media cost more up front. The one time cost of a big download, CD, or (worst case) a book, is much more for the publisher (me) but it allows the user to avoid the continuing cost of internet access over a period of time. The forum is simply re-distributing the posts that were sent to it which is the ENTIRE POINT OF HAVING A FORUM! That is where the legal "implied license" comes in. I even volunteered to share any profits with major contributors. I don't understand the objections. And I really don't understand how all this "crediting the authors" stuff is coming up. Have I EVER not credited someone for having written something on the site? And the archive, or course, automatically credits whoever posts. And I try very hard to make sure that the credit includes a link to what ever (email, website, phone number, etc...) they want. That's why the membership form includes all these fields. If you want people to be able to contact you, you have a homepage on the site that lists whatever you have entered on the form. If you login and post to the site via the forms at the bottom of the page, it automatically credits you and links to your page so that if your email or phone or webaddress changes, you only have to change it in one place. If you want to hide, your member ID is the only thing that gets posted and only I know who posted what. And, damn it, I will not let people post directly to the site without having some record of who posted what and some way to lock out people who try to post "bad things" like porno links, foul language, accusations against others, etc... This was supposed to be a way for people to share, get credit and make contacts, friends, or find work on the net in a technical forum. Nik, for example, has received 2 solid job offers now as a result of his piclist posts and people finding him from the site. Olin has received any number of enquiries that he could have just quoted his consulting rate in response to and quite possibly gotten some work out of I know I have made quite a bit on consulting that I would not have made if I had not been active on this list. Speff, Sam, and others I know have also managed to turn list activity into paying jobs. I sort of thought that having ones name and contact info (email, website, etc...) out there in a positive light was a good thing. The site gets butt loads of hits and people search for keywords all the time. If you have posted knowledgably on a keyword, you can probably expect to be contacted at some point and that is an opportunity for you to connect, get involved or quote rates. Its "A Good Thing" No? I can't believe that all my work trying to build a community could be thrown back in my face as being "invasive" or "nosey" If you don't want to disclose more than your email address (to me, its not even public like it is on the piclist mailing list) you can still access the archives and post to the site. As the text on the form makes very clear, the other fields are OPTIONAL. FOR YOU ONLY IF YOU WANT TO USE THEM. How hard can that be to get across? How can anyone object? Please explain how I am failing to communicate this. The thing that really blows me away is that several manufacturers (mostly small shops) have contacted me via email and complained that I haven't listed them on the site! As though that was my duty or something. So if I quote you on the FAQ site, I get people complaining about their copyrights and my "profits" from selling their "trade secrets" that they posted to a public forum with a well know FAQ site that is totally free to access via the internet and if I don't take the time to list them they complain that I haven't "done a good job of representing the available resources" despite the fact that the forms on the bottom of every page allow anyone to post what they want directly to the site. Man, I sure hope that I'm responding to an uninformed minority of the PICList members, because if this is a majority.... I must really be out of touch and you should find someone to admin and promote the list who better understands what you want. Please let me know: mailto:jamesnewton@piclist.com?subject=JAMES_YOU_JUST_DONT_GET_IT mailto:jamesnewton@piclist.com?subject=JAMES_YOU_ARE_DOING_THE_RIGHT_THING James Newton, PICList Admin #3 ? mailto:jamesnewton@piclist.com 1-619-652-0593 phone http://www.piclist.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Roman Black To: Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2001 00:27 Subject: Re: [OT]: piclist.com James Newton. Admin 3 wrote: > > I don't have any method in place to stop archival of posts based on > inclusion of copyright or X-NOARCHIVE, etc... > > If it gets to that point, and no one will volunteer the time to add those > methods, I'll close the archive (make it not publicly accessible) or > unsubscribe the objectors as the list members feel appropriate. > > Makes you wonder if it is worth it... Don't get disheartened James. I imagine the majority of people on the list really appreciate the many hours you put in (without pay!) and what you have achieved. I am member of a few public forums, and it is a very obvious reality that anything that you post to a public forum is "out there". Hundreds of people read it, some save it to their harddrive, some email it to friends, etc. Unless you are prepared for the entire world to be able to read it for the rest of eternity then don't post it. As for someone selling my posts and making money from my efforts helping another person, I can understand why many piclist people would be upset about that. If you ever do that I think it would need to be handled very carefully. Re the piclist.com form, I am not "properly" subscribed to piclist.com facilities as I didn't like the form either, too many places on the net are way too invasive and the public are getting sick of it. -Roman -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.