Dale, the '7404' oscillator uses the crystal in series mode and besides not being 'on' the parallel frequency it does not require caps. The 8085,8051,8052 etc have a larger pin capacitance than many other chips and they will often run without caps or with only one cap. In practice a 4MHz oscillator can be 'pulled' about 400Hz without too much trouble. If it is used w/o caps it may be pulled 200Hz by environmental factors. If used with caps the environmental factors become a small percentage of the caps and the pull is reduced to under 10Hz (over temperature, humidity, etc). That is a 20:1 improvement. Peter -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.