Hi John, I have to back Chris up on this one - as a native (as in it is the language in every day use and it was the first I learned!) english speaker among a nation of others. I actually would find it very difficult to say "math" without the "s". In fact everytime I hear it on TV(US programmes - note the two "m"s and the e) it hurts my ear! In Ireland we have always used "maths" for short. Suffice it to say that in the US you speak and write "Americanese" which is really a lazy version of English, i.e. if you can't spell it properly then spell what you hear! While the rant is on - another thing that really irks me, is how the word "affect" has started to be used universally in the places where "effect" should be used (I blame Microsoft Word!). Also the misuse of "already" with the future tense, "I'll do it already!" is another stupid phrase we keep hearing on TV. Flame shield up Cloak device on John BTW I'm Irish and living in Ireland so don't reply saying " you English ......" -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics