Hi all, I just thought I'd put in a few words to the discussion. If I were to look at the specs and devices available from a commercial programmer, and then I had thoughts on creating a copy for free, and had delusions of matching that companies database, manpower and resources, I would hope my missus locks me up in a straight jacket and throws away the key. She may as well, my life as I know it would be over just the same. My own thoughts about a universal programmer is that it is probably not achievable by any one person like myself. From my limited experience, I have already found that it takes an awful lot of time being involved in creating anything even remotely close to that goal. It's not just a matter of creating the thing, it's also having the drive and the time to maintain it. I guess it also means being perceived as being able to do that long term for it to be successful. I guess the initial "gung ho - in we go" attitude dies away when the enormity of the problem starts to arise out of the settled dust and it becomes near impossible to juggle time to devote to the project. The Engine and the Pocket are attempts at open programmers, but they are by no means the solution. I know the Engine is being used because of feedback but it's interesting, as Dan points out, that no-one (to my knowledge) has even attempted to add to the list of programming code modules for other devices. I started the ball rolling with a dozen or so but it fell in a hole and stopped. My guess is that on the bottom line most people don't want to bother with the nitty gritties of debugging code and spending time developing it either. I can't see a company telling 'Fred' to stop what he's doing and spend a week to create a module that programs a Dallas thermometer and then make it available on the web for free. I really don't think most hobby types want to do it either if it interferes with thier own projects. Then you have to contend with - oh man, is it the programmer or my project that doesn't work... I can spend some time adding to the data base, but I can't personally afford to spend the money buying a couple of devices from who knows how many companies and then figure out how they work, write code for them, then test the chips in real projects to make sure they do what they do before posting the code. This all get's back to a group effort, but as history shows, not many are willing to engage in it long term. It's got to be a labour of love for it to work, not a quest for money and that may be the killer. For my part, it is a lobour of love. I get satisfaction out of creating something that people may find useful. Overall, I still only make enough to keep the web site up and running and pay all the bills that seem to come out of the woodwork. I've managed to upgrade my computer which has given me more opportunities in being creative and whatever is left I consider a bonus - and so does the tax man. If I was to add it all up, I'm probably earning about 10 cents an hour. Software for these projects is the easy part. Common sense, imagination and time. Hardware is harder because it takes money and you have to be prepared to gamble it away. -- Best regards Tony mICros http://www.bubblesoftonline.com mailto:sales@bubblesoftonline.com -- http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? Don't AutoReply us! email listserv@mitvma.mit.edu with SET PICList DIGEST in the body