David VanHorn wrote: "I agree with your approach, up to a point. It sounds to me like your crystal is crashing into the sides of the can. Check the specs, but I doubt it's rated for that sort of abuse. And therein is the fault I see in this method. You're getting into areas where you're exciting threshold effects, not wearout effects." well, yes but no. No, because what you are doing with this sort of test is, in effect, time compression. So we expect that crystal to fail. We're just getting it to fail sooner. There's nothing wrong with taking this test way beyond the individual component's specs. We are, after all, trying to break it. We're trying to make the product as a whole more robust. Yes, because you are right. Taking it beyond what it can possibly survive will cause it fail, and under normal conditions that failure mode might not ever be seen. You do need to apply some common sense. There are physical limitations, and I do realize that. But, if the crystal is the first thing that fails in your HALT test, it's a pretty good bet that field failures will also show a failed crystal. Whether or not that came about due to vibration. Of course, if vibration is the only thing that causes the crystal to fail, then yeah, the excess stress in the test is not really valid. But we don't make delicate lab instruments. We make plumbing tools. Construction crews drop tools all the time (from ladders, of course). The tools get wet. They get extremely muddy and dusty. They are left in the back of a truck in the middle of winter, then taken inside a heated building. Or they are left in the truck in the middle of summer, and get taken inside an air conditioned building. All of these stresses add up over time and shorten the life. Again, we're after time compression. Get them to fail early so you understand how they fail, and fix it before it ever gets to a customer. Perhaps you will see a way to cushion the crystal, or even the whole assembly. Perhaps you choose a different crystal, or switch to an RC if timing is not critical. And by taking the crystal beyond its specs, you will likely encounter something else that breaks. Of course, it does not always make sense to ruggedize a product beyond a point. If the improvement is relatively expensive, and only yields a small improvement, then perhaps it is not worth it. Then there's the company 'attitude' to consider. For the computer industry, where they want us to buy a new PC every 6 months, this sort of thing probably does not. But, for someone like my company, whose (newly adopted) motto is "Tools engineered for maximum uptime" and who offers a life-time warranty on tools, it makes a lot of sense. Of course, our price reflects that :) We have always been known for robust products. There's a lot of our machines made in the late sixties and early seventies that we still service. Now that we're integrating electronics, we needed a way to get there. Still learning, but have come a long way. Ok, now we have drifted sufficiently off the topic of the original question :) If we continue this discussion, we should probably mark it [OT]. -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics