The burden lies with the professor. I am a teacher of electronics. If I assigned a group of my students a PIC based project that I did NOT want them to get outside help on, then I would first inform the students of that fact in very clear and precise terms. I would tell them what they COULD seek help on, and what they were expected to figure out on their own. I would then post a short e-mail using the [OT]: tag to the PIC list informing the list members of the project and the details of what areas I expected the students to research on their own. Asking for very specific help on a particular problem (such as the student who recently asked about why they were only able to read half of the AD info) is legitimate. Sending an e-mail basically asking PIC list members to design the project for them is totally unacceptable. As the teacher, believe me, I can tell in an instant when a student has not done the majority of the work themself. If a student cannot explain some element of their design or detail how a program section operates, I KNOW that they just copied something without understanding it. And their mark will reflect that. Personally, I want my students to UNDERSTAND what they are doing and WHY. As the teacher, I take it upon myself to teach my students all the nitty gritty facts that they need to begin the design process. For example, I teach them how to use tables to do look-ups and conversions. I also teach them how to use two data points and perform an interpolation so that the tables can be reduced to a reasonable size. But when I assign a project to the students I WANT them to grapple with the details on their own as much as possible, because I want them to LEARN HOW TO LEARN. And they don't get that by being handed everything on a silver platter. You should see the look of pride on their face when they hand in something that they labored through mostly on their own, which works, and which they thoroughly understand. Fr. Tom McGahee ----- Original Message ----- From: Brandon, Tom To: Sent: Monday, February 26, 2001 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [OT]: Helping Profs. help students > Seems like something professors would have to deal with, both the general > and the specific. They could setup a filter that put all PICList mail from > their students in a folder so they could review it. If it seemed a student > was seeking excessive help they could ask the student to explain their > methods. It's not quite so bad if they at least understand it. After all > they can copy many answer's from any textbook, source code repository etc. > > Maybe you could allow professors to register that they run a class using > PIC's. That way if list users thought someone was asking a little too much > they could see if the users email suffix matched that of a professor. Of > course, it's pretty easy to use a Yahoo (or some such) address so... > > Tom. > -----Original Message----- > From: James Newton [mailto:jamesnewton@PICLIST.COM] > Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 2:42 AM > To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU > Subject: [OT]: Helping Profs. help students > > > Anyone have any ideas how we can help with the following? I'd like to hear > from professors and students as well as the engineers who have encountered > this issue in the past. If you know one of those, please forward this to > them... > > --- > James Newton (PICList Admin #3) > mailto:jamesnewton@piclist.com 1-619-652-0593 > PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org > > -----Original Message----- > From: James Newton [mailto:jamesnewton@piclist.com] > Sent: Friday, February 23, 2001 12:12 > To: Andrew Warren > Subject: RE: Another PICLIST Tag? > > > I've been thinking about this for a while... > > The problem I see is getting professors to USE the tag. I think the volume > of traffic on that channel would not justify its existence. > > On the other hand, it does seem like something needs to be done. A separate > mailing list perhaps? > > May I post your suggestion (and my comments here) to the PICList under the > [OT]: tag and ask for suggestions / input from professors? > > --- > James Newton (PICList Admin #3) > mailto:jamesnewton@piclist.com 1-619-652-0593 > PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org > > -----Original Message----- > From: Andrew Warren [mailto:fastfwd@ix.netcom.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 09:38 > To: jamesnewton@piclist.org > Subject: Another PICLIST Tag? > > > James: > > Even though I'm out of the consulting business, I still get numerous > requests from people who want custom PIC software. Often, those > requests seem to be from students who want me to do their homework > for them. I know there are some consultants don't care where their > money comes from, but personally, I have no interest in helping > anyone cheat his way through school. > > Usually, it's pretty easy to tell when the request is for a school > project -- I mean, how often does anyone OUTSIDE of school need to > develop a traffic-light simulator based on a PIC16F877? -- but > sometimes it's not quite that obvious. > > How about adding a new tag to the PICLIST -- something like > "[HOMEWORK]:" -- that professors can use to post the details of their > assigned projects, so we can match them up against the requests we > get in private email? > > -Andy > > > === Andrew Warren - fastfwd@ix.netcom.com > === Fast Forward Engineering - San Diego, California > === http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499 > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: > [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: > [PIC]:,[SX]:,[AVR]: ->uP ONLY! [EE]:,[OT]: ->Other [BUY]:,[AD]: ->Ads > > -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics