The piclist.com archive membership form is NOT a service of a third party. That data goes from your machine, over the internet (unsecured until somebody wants to donate a secure certificate for the server) to the server and gets saved in a database. It doesn't get accessed or reported on any web page (except the members "home page" as indicated on the form and that is minimal and optional). Its for my use only. I wrote the form and I feel that it is important to know what I ask for in order to protect the rights of the piclist members. Your going to ask "why?" so here it is. The archive will have email addresses in it. I've done what I could to trap and lockout addresses mining bots but what one man does, another can undo. I can see from the log files (which I review regularly and have programs that look for and warn me of access patterns that are probably mining) when a particular IP address is mining the archive, but with only that information, I have to have full cooperation from the ISP who controls that IP address to take any action. With the membership form, I have at least an email address that I know is valid, and probably a good telephone number and address. If the phone number and address don't pass verification, that account is watched more closely. So YOUR email address and other information is more protected because the access to it is better followed. So why the years experience, productive hours, etc...? because it helps me to know if the person who I'm dealing with is a newbie, new to the list or a crusty old steely eyed rocket man. You can always lie about that, but if you are crusty and you list your self as a newbie, expect to get an email like "Now I know you are new at this, and I don't mind teaching people, but you really must understand that...." rather than "Hey, man, I know you must have done this before, could I ask you to..." Also, it helps when somebody tries 5 times to subscribe with a dud email address and I can call them on the phone and say "hey, your ISP is bouncing that email address, are you sure you have it right?" as a few of you know I have done. I would never ask age or income or race or sex or anything like that. I agree that those parameters are an invasion of personal information. I'm open to discussion of the issue. James Newton, PICList Admin #3 mailto:jamesnewton@piclist.com 1-619-652-0593 phone http://www.piclist.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Anthony Bussan To: Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 22:22 Subject: Re: [OT]:Great Opportunity Even our dear piclist.com has that membership form (for the archive, not the mailing list) that asks for more information than I care to give. That's why I haven't signed up yet. From what I can tell these both are services of a third party, of whom I have no way to know if they will abuse me or my personal information. Tony -----Original Message----- From: Dan Michaels [mailto:dan@ORICOMTECH.COM] Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 11:43 PM To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: [OT]:Great Opportunity That's why it's labelled [OT]: Matthew. Personally, I would like to hear some other people's input regarding use of such forms on websites, before it takes the deep 6. Otherwise, it's just 2 opinions. Maybe some of us with websites can learn something useful. At 08:49 PM 2/14/01 -0600, you wrote: >Folks, > >Can this thread please be taken private? There appears to be nothing new in >this thread of interest to the group. > >-Matt > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: pic microcontroller discussion list >> [mailto:PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Dan Michaels >> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2001 7:54 PM >> To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU >> Subject: Re: [OT]:Great Opportunity >> >> >> At 11:40 AM 2/15/01 +1100, you wrote: >> >Dan, >> > >> >Thank for your comments regarding the Electronics discussion >> group joining >> >form at http://www.orbitcoms.com >> > >> >The list uses LISTBOT as the server for the group. The questions >> posed are >> >the standard form supplied by LISTBOT and as far as I can understand at >> >present, cannot be modified. >> > >> >If you take a look at the marks next to the boxes, you should >> see that only >> >a few fields are actually required to join the group. I have >> tried to mark >> >fields as REQUIRED only if they were not too personal. >> > >> >> >> Hi David, I'm not sure how others feel about it, but my general feeling >> is that american society is already "greatly" too invasive, and soon as >> I see something like your form, my first inclination is to simply exit >> right. Adios muchacho. >> >> Whether some fields are or are not "required" doesn't really matter to >> me in this case. When there is a line for "income" [not required] and >> another for age [*=required], etc, as shown below, the ole RED FLAG just >> goes right up the pole --> who are these people and why do they need >> to know this stuff anyways? >> >> Mr/Ms: >> *First Name: >> *Last Name: >> Address: >> *City: >> State or Province: >> ZIP or Postal Code: >> *Country: >> Phone >> * Age: >> Gender: >> *Occupation: >> Income: >> *Company Name: >> *Organization Type: >> *Company Size: >> Web Site Type: >> Primary Net Connection: >> Home Ownership: >> Internet Experience: >> Education: >> Marital Status: >> Children in Household: >> >> >> Company size [required], home ownership, children in household >> - [give me a friggin break]. >> >> Maybe I'm just being an overly sensitive american - but personally I'd >> get rid of the damn thing completely. It also doesn't help that ListBot >> comes from Micro$oft, this sounds like something they would create for >> a lawyer or insurance company. >> >> I would be interested to know if I am the only person around these >> parts to feel this way ??????????????????????? >> ================= >> >> >> >Any information given on this form is STRICTLY confidential and >> will not be >> >passed on to any other party. I would suggest only entering >> details that are >> >required or you feel comfortable with. >> > >> >> Also, on the internet circa 2001, these kinds of guarantees probably >> won't assuage many people's anxieties re privacy. >> =================== >> >> >> >It would be great if there was a way to not show all those other >> fields at >> >all, I have no personal interest in marital status etc of users. >> > >> >> If I did keep this thing, I would make essentially EVERY field, >> beyond name >> and email address, "optional". >> ============= >> >> >> >I find that their name and general location (city/country), age and net >> >experience is helpful information. >> > >> >This helps me understand how I need to phrase my answers etc to best suit >> >the user. >> > >> >If I know that the person I am chatting with is inexperienced on the net >> >etc, then I will try and make my answer simpler and avoid jargon etc. >> > >> >> Regarding this, you can usually tell what most people know [and also >> whether or not they have any semblance of a sense of humor] just as >> soon as they open their mouths :(0). >> =================== >> >> >> >If anyone else here interested in joining the Wireless,Analog and Digital >> >electronics discussion feels that the REQUIRED information on >> the join form >> >is too invasive, please let me know and I can the fields that are >> >problematic. >> > >> >Thanks again for the feedback. >> > >> >Best regards >> > >> >David Huisman >> >> >> I'd like to hear some other opinions about this sort of thing too. >> >> regards, >> - dan michaels >> www.oricomtech.com >> ================== >> >> -- >> http://www.piclist.com#nomail Going offline? 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