If you have any interaction with the outside world (especially humans) then timing events there (like keypresses) works well. Or, you can use a pseudo-random number generator. (see Knuth, for example). Bob Ammerman RAm Systems (contract development of high performance, high function, low-level software) -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The PICList is archived three different ways. See http://www.piclist.com/#archives for details.