In Myke Predco's book "Programming and Customizing the PIC Microcontroller" he suggests: "When developing an application, put in the hardware required to allow in-circuit programming of the device. This can give you a significant board manufacturing cost reduction." Sage advice to say the least. Casually researching this topic, I have found suggestions to clip a connector to all pins of the in-circuit PIC to be programmed. This will not be a practical or reliable option in my opinion. Likewise, I would rather not include a header that is connected to every pin of the PIC. My goal is to expose the fewest extra pins of the device as possible (if any), as many pins are already brought out to headers anyway in my design. My question is where would I learn more about the absolute minimum pins needed for in-circuit programming? Can anyone point me in any direction? Also, I should raise the question: which PCB manufacturer is cheap and reliable for producing very small double-sided surface mount boards in small runs (i.e. ~100 at a time)? My device only uses a voltage regulator, a PIC 16c73B, a Max232 equivalent, and a crystal. Thanks. John Clark Indianapolis, IN -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: "[PIC]:","[SX]:","[AVR]:" =uP ONLY! "[EE]:","[OT]:" =Other "[BUY]:","[AD]:" =Ads