On Sun, 3 Sep 2000, Olin Lathrop wrote: ---many lines clipped--- > chip coming out next quarter. For some reason people seem to have an > amazing capacity to be penny-wise and pound-foolish. ---- Uh-oh, I know you are trolling and yet I reply. hmm. It's a big world out there, Olin. There are many reasons to build your own programmer. Although it's often a money issue, even some rich Americans like myself like to build their own(I also have a Picstart+). For some it's a moral issue - they won't run Windows. Kudos to those brave souls (I'm a dual-boot guy). I'm sure there will be others posting to the list to help enlighten you to the other reasons why it's a good idea for them to do things for reasons you never thought of. In answer to the original poster's question: The 16F84 and 16C84 are interchangeable as far as the device programmer is concerned, and the only difference in the driver software invloves the protect bits, but if you don't set the protect bits you don't need to change the settings. Note the 16F84 has more ram, but the device programmer doesn't see that. Cheers, Bob -- http://www.piclist.com hint: To leave the PICList mailto:piclist-unsubscribe-request@mitvma.mit.edu