I've made a handful of suggestions to James off list as well. They have fallen on deaf ears until you brought this up publicly. Thanks! Andy Robert Rolf on 08/11/2000 05:03:29 PM Please respond to pic microcontroller discussion list To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU cc: (bcc: Andrew Kunz/TDI_NOTES) Subject: Re: [OT]: [ADMIN]: Voting for/against tags. Last word? It's not the tags that are the problem. It's the dunning robot admonishment that is. I _like_ the tags, but rapping people's knuckles when they're not used correctly is NOT the way to get them to use them. Unless the wording has been changed, the dunning note is pretty authoritarian in tone, and I just plain don't need to be treated like a child. It reflects a list management attitude that I can do without. Is is not sufficient that the list has a footer reminding us of the tag rules EVERY TIME a post is made? (Well it used to. Maybe the enumerated list version needs to be restored). James & I have had a thorough off-list discussion about this, and I understand his reasons and the constraints caused by brain dead software. The fact remains that the auto reminder & it's wording is James' (and other admins) doing. "James Newton ...I wrote the automatic reminder message program... NOT THEM." As for the tags killing my input, that's just my way of dealing with how forgotten tags are currently handled. Once the dunning notes stop, I may consider participating again (and I DO use tags). I started this thread to see if others felt as as strongly about the dunning notes I do. This point seems to have been lost. I am all FOR TAGS, but AGAINST dunning robotic reminders. Maybe James can fix his code so that a more friendly note gets sent only ONCE to list posters (and expire the 'sentrules' entry after 30 days). As Dan Michaels has neatly summarized: "Looking at piclist archives for August shows that about 120 of 859 msgs mistagged, and some "threads" are scattered and broken into many pieces. Some threads have several "attempts" made to correct a previous bad tag. As soon as you have a system in place with "strong syntactical" requirements, infringements occur all the time. To re-iterate my "logic" from yesterday, if the computer were to *automatically* add a tag - say [OT]: - to any msg that came in with a bad tag, then: - all msgs would have a valid tag. - lazy people could stay lazy, rigorous people stay rigorous. - no-one would be receiving knuckle waps for using a bad tag. - no-one would be receiving knuckle waps for responding to someone else's msg that had a bad tag. - responders wouldn't have to correct bad tags to preclude getting a knuckle wap. - threads would be more compact, and easier to follow in the archives. - tag-filterers could still [de]select what they wanted. - arguing would cease, as everyone who dislikes the tag system wouldn't have to use one -[unless of course you wanted to be sure how your msg was classified]. " The above would seem to be a simple solution agreeable to all. Unfortunately the LSOFT robot can't handle it, YET. I think it is FAR more important that 'correct' subject lines be used by all, and that the subject be changed when a thread changes topic (as this one did, starting out as 'Monitor Battery Srings'). Andrew Kuntz said in a later post: "If the process required to prevent those obnoxious messages about formatting is preventing somebody, anybody, from posting, they are NOT worth having here! . I think it would be useful for James to do some stats on the list member profiles (what tags they receive) and see just how many turn off which tags to get some idea of how well the tags are being used. " I've already asked for a summary of the list subscribers by tag, but there has been only an incomplete response. What are the subscriber percentages for EE, PIC, OT, ADMIN vs ALL? I suspect that only those that feel strongly one way or the other would have voted on the 'tags' issue, but in my mind, the -real- issue is the 'dunning' reminders. How can tags NOT be useful? "2) would you, Dan, Robert and any others who are unhappy, be satisfied if the reminder were not posted for reply's? e.g. if someone posts .." Yes. It should not become MY responsibility to fix another posters mistakes to avoid dunning mail. I think it's important to keep subject lines unchanged so that they stay in sort order. 'Fixing' a missing tag upsets that sorting. Andrew Kunz wrote: > > I noticed you hadn't said anything much lately, just figured it was being too > busy. > > Seeing that the stupid tags are killing the input on the list CERTAINLY is a > major grounds for removing the tag requirement, imho. For every one (like you) > who says that, there are probably several others who don't.] > > Andy I don't get it Andrew. In one post you say that tags should be removed, if it's preventing people from posting, and in another that people who can't use them correctly "are NOT worth having here!" Was your first post sarcasm (without the emoticon)? James suggested that my objections are "to provide a vent for some people who just have to have a hand in controlling things." Nothing could be farther from the truth since I have my own lists to 'control' . I know how hard it is to be a list admin, although on a much smaller scale than PICLIST. As I stated at the start of this thread, I voted for not getting dunned for others errors by simply NOT posting. My problem. MY solution. And in the end, it's saved me a lot of time, so I again thank James for helping me cure this affliction. I really -don't- have to post to the list just because I -think- I may have something useful to contribute. That said, I return to lurk mode. And don't forget to take a look at the NorthEastern Sky this evening (Fri & Sat 1-5AM) to catch the annual Persieds meteor shower. Robert. > Robert Rolf on 08/10/2000 04:29:51 PM > > To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU > cc: (bcc: Andrew Kunz/TDI_NOTES) > Subject: [OT]: [ADMIN]: Voting for/against tags > > Dan Michaels wrote: > > > > Andy Kunz wrote: > > >>Sorry about my incorrect subject header. I will figure out the syntax. > > > > > >Don't you be sorry. WE'RE sorry that James makes us do this. > > > > > Seconded. Shall we vote now? > > I already have. > > I've stopped posting to the list even though I often had something to > contribute to the threads. It's saved me a lot of time (and dunning > notices from replies to incorrectly formatted subject lines) so _thank > you_ James for curing my 'stupidity'. > > I wonder what the subscriber stats are for the 'new' sorted lists? > My guess would be that most people are still subscribed to the old, > unsorted list, expecting that we're adult enough to know how to > use the delete key for threads that don't interest us. > > I'm in favour of tags, but I've no tolerance for automatically > generated 'you're a dunce' notices, particularly when its due to > someone else's (thread initiators) error. Since the robot isn't > smart enough to tell a reply from a new thread, and I don't believe > in messing up the 'subject sort' many people use to follow threads (by > changing it), I simply abstain, and avoid the dunning mailbot. > > Robert > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: > [PIC]: PIC only [EE]: engineering [OT]: off topic [AD]: advertisements > > -- > http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics > (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics -- http://www.piclist.com hint: The list server can filter out subtopics (like ads or off topics) for you. See http://www.piclist.com/#topics -- http://www.piclist.com hint: PICList Posts must start with ONE topic: [PIC]: PIC only [EE]: engineering [OT]: off topic [AD]: advertisements