>> I see it as DSL just moving the bottleneck from one place to another. Oh common. ALL of networking consists of moving bottlenecks from one place to another. Some bottlenecks are inherent (say, a 9600bps dialup link to the end user) and others are only really bottlenecks if they're allowed to become oversubscribed. You can't tell much of ANYTHING about the expected performance of an end-user network connection without knowing about the other pieces between you and where you want to talk to, AND the ISP's policies on oversubscription AND how close they are to being oversubscribed. You DO know that your DSL link will not be oversubscribed, (because it's just you), but that's a pretty tiny piece of data compared to the big picture. (likewise, a dialin based ISP gives you a pretty good idea when they start hitting their limits, because you start getting busy signals.) I'll withhold the lecture on the "Ethernet is really only good for 6Mbps" statement, other than reminding people that it's not true. BillW