The key point is.. again... AFTER the DSL end run reaches the CO, it gets shared with all the other DSL end runs from your neighborhood just like the Cable network does. Your connection to the "rest" of the internet is no faster and is no more immune from overload than the cable connection. Pacific Bell's ad is a lie, a damn lie, and I understand that they are being sued for it. Now, Andy Warren did bring up a valid point which is that if you are trying to transfer data between people on the same local network, a good router at the CO could support faster LOCAL transfers than the cable network can. But for general internet service, DSL can not hope to compete with cable. Again, I'd love for someone to prove me wrong. Also, a shielded coax cable can carry much more data, much more reliably than any twisted pair phone cable and we haven't even started talking about how long the wires have been in the ground.... or the customer service.... or the mistrust the phone company deserves... or... --- James Newton mailto:jamesnewton@geocities.com 1-619-652-0593 http://techref.massmind.org All the engineering secrets worth knowing -----Original Message----- From: pic microcontroller discussion list [mailto:PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Bennett, Matt Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 06:37 To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: An idea for faster upstream rates[OT] It is true that a congested local loop can seriously slow down the network- Take any congested ethernet running TCP/IP, a somewhat faster analogue to cable modems- once the bandwidth usage gets to 50% of its rated capacity, throughput goes to the floor because the channel is dominated by retries. The primary difference between the telephone network and the data network is that on the telephone network, there is a mechanism to guarantee bandwidth. When you place a voice call, you've just locked in a 64kbps channel from your CO to the called parties CO. Since DSL is on the telephone network, it is possible that the telephone company can guarantee your bandwidth at least to your ISP, where it would get lumped together with all the other users. If they actually do, I don't know. I do know that my DSL runs great- I run my own 2 domains off of it, and I get higher (downstream) rates than advertized. While I do get my DSL connection from the local baby bell, I do *NOT* use them as my ISP. I use a local company that is extremely responsive on the few times I've had to call them, where they have live 24/7 support, and each time, they were aware of the problem, in the process of fixing it, and service was back to normal in minutes. I have *never* had that type of service from any telephone company. -----Original Message----- From: piclist.com Sent: Sunday, May 21, 2000 10:19 AM To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: An idea for faster upstream rates[OT] Importance: Low And for anyone who isn't sure what the hell I'm talking about: Pacific Bell internet has been advertising that the major advantage of DSL over Cable is that the DSL is a separate circuit from you all the way to the central office where the "connection to the internet" occurs and that the cable "shared connection" can cause serious slowdowns in service if your neighbors all get on the net at the same time. They seem to think that their customers will complexly miss the fact that the entire internet is a "shared connection" and that PacBell is still "sharing" the connection between all the DSL end-runs and the internet at each of the Central Offices. Any success they have had with that type of lie is a sad comment on public education.