Andy!

NO WAY! 13.5!!

Just kidding. There is a guy at my track that does this pretty consistantly
in his near bone stock '93 Mustang. I have always wanted to get him into my
car. I know he could knock another .2 secs off my best. I have many more
gray hairs than his dad. Lot of those new Cameros have been hinting at the
high 12s too.

The problem I have is track conditions. Since I rarely race when the bigger
cars are present to lay down some rubber, and I usually race at night when
temps can go from 90* to 60* in a matter of two hours, with fog, and
everyone starts throwing water out their tailpipes and track workers stand
on the starting line with mops.... well, I think you get the  my drift.

What happens is every once and a while I apply just 1 hp to much to the
rear wheels and away they go. A lost race if I am not lucky enough to
feather the gas and recover perfectly. I am not trying to gain lower short
times, just trying to get more consistant times and avoid the occasional
spin.

Thanks Andy.

John
----------
> From: Andrew Warren <fastfwd@IX.NETCOM.COM>
> To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: Ignition timing, 2nd iteration.... [OT]
> Date: Tuesday, May 02, 2000 7:25 PM
>
>     This is REALLY off-topic now, but I'm gonna send my reply to the
>     list anyway, since the thread seems to be pretty popular.  Note
>     that I've added [OT] to the subject line.
>
> John Pearson <PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU> wrote:
>
> > > > 1.  Wheelspin on launch is NECESSARY for the fastest times
> > > >
> > > > 2.  The deformation of the rear tires under heavy
> > > >     acceleration changes their circumference (in the wrong
> > > >     direction), so the traction-control system will
> > > >     incorrectly see slippage when there is none
> > > >
> > > > 3.  Maximum traction isn't developed with no wheelspin,
> > > >     anyway; the most acceleration is developed when the tires
> > > >     are slightly slipping
> >
> > This is so cool. I can't believe it, but I am learning more on the
> > piclist than I do on Car techboards.
> >
> > I am leary about the claim that tires offer more traction when
> > slipping, but have been in many circumstances when I get poor 60 foot
> > times when the track is sticky and my tires hook. And real good short
> > times when my tires "chirp, chirp, chirp"! So I am going to take this
> > seriously.
>
>     John:
>
>     What you're seeing is the effect of the FIRST thing I mentioned,
>     not the third.
>
>     While it's true that pneumatic rubber tires on asphalt reach
>     peak traction when they're slipping a little, you're unlikely to
>     see that effect (since your car has relatively-modest power)
>     except for a brief moment right after launch or under hard
>     braking/cornering (which isn't real applicable to drag racing).
>
> > The thing I wanted to say though, is that I am using street radials.
> > The reason they are so poor with acceleration is that they don't
> > deform. They are like accelerating with wooden wheels.
>
>     They don't "wind up" like drag slicks (your car wouldn't wind
>     drag slicks anyway), and they don't "squish" as much as a drag
>     slick would, but they DO squish enough that any wheelspeed-based
>     traction-control system would have to account for the change.
>
>     It sounds as though you're relatively new to the whole racing
>     thing.  It's great to see that you're so enthusiastic about doing
>     your own engine modifications -- that's rare these days, when so
>     many people just want to buy mail-order "performance" parts --
>     but at this early stage of the game, the most cost-effective way
>     to improve your times is probably through improving your own
>     driving.  Take a class if one's available at your local strip,
>     talk to experienced racers, practice practice practice... That
>     sort of thing.
>
>     Computer-controlled spark timing is one of those things that adds
>     just a TINY bit of performance to a car that's already running
>     near-optimally; you're likely to see MUCH more dramatic gains by
>     working on your technique.  If it helps, ask yourself before
>     buying any parts, "If John Force were driving my car as-is, could
>     he get substantially better times than me?"  As long as the
>     answer's yes, you don't need those parts.
>
>     Just a bit of unsolicited advice; feel free to ignore it.
>
>     -Andy (whose last run in his dead-stock daily driver, on street
>      tires, was 13.5xx at 108 MPH)
>
>
> === Andrew Warren - fastfwd@ix.netcom.com
> === Fast Forward Engineering - San Diego, California
> === http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/2499