WELCOME TO THE PICLIST.COM/.ORG FAQ The PICList is a collection of people interested in the Microchip PIC processor who have requested that email sent to the PICList email address be forwarded to them. There are about 2000 people subscribed to the PICList (as of 20000401) so sending a post to the PICList results in a lot of people spending the time required to read your message or question. They would all appreciate it if you would search the PIC FAQ at http://www.piclist.com/faq and search the Archives at http://www.iversoft.com/piclist/ or http://www.infosite.com/%7Ejkeyzer/piclist/index.html before posting a question. If you are just starting with the PIC microcontroller, please read the Beginners checklist at http://www.piclist.com/begin Many of our members enjoy reading posts on topics other than the PIC but that may be interesting to PICers (engineering, ideas, technical jokes, etc...) but many others do not wish to spend the time required to read these off-topic posts. They would appreciate it if you would put the text [OT] at the end of the subject line of your post so that they know its not about PICs. If you are replying to a post that is not about PICs and notice that it is not marked [OT], please edit the subject line to add that flag. Remember that the PICList is a world wide thing and that if you are talking about an item that may change with physical location you should mention yours (at least country and maybe state or province). Q : How do I send messages to the list A : Step by step: First, you check the PIC FAQ. and search the Archives. to get an instant answer without wasting anyone's time. Second, you must be subscribed to the list to post to the list and you must send from the email address you subscribed from. Third you must compose a message to PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU that will elicit help. If its not about PICs directly, that's ok, post it anyway but put [OT] at the end of the subject line. The subject should be as complete a description of the problem as is possible in 60 characters or so. Compress and distill. The body should: - be in plain text, not HTML. - be a detailed description of the problem in as few words as possible. - If you have a web page, post a verbose description of the problem to it and put the full URL of that page in your post (include the http:// ) along with a summary of the problem. - include what you are trying to do (overall), what you expected to have happen at this point, what you are seeing, and how you are seeing it (what test equipment, etc...) - Include specific part numbers, code snippets (not the full source, please), and signal descriptions. Finally, read your message over again, check the subject line and press send. You will not see your message echoed on the PIClist, and it may take more than a day before anyone responds since most people only read their PICList mail once a day and they are all over the world. If no one responds after a week, read the rest of this page, especially the general list guidelines, rethink your post and add a "Nobody responded to my last post, what am I doing wrong?" to the end and send it again. Q : How do I send commands (like to subscribe/unsubscribe)? A : To send a command, send it in the body of an email to the list server address : LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU For instance, to get off the list, you send the command : SIGNOFF PICLIST to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Sending SIGNOFF PICLIST in the body of a post to the PICLIST@... address will result in about 2000 people being notified that you want to leave the PICList and the emails will keep right on coming. Q : Where must the command be in my email? A : In the message body. The subject line is ignored. Q : What commands are available ? A : List of ListServer commands is available at http://www.piclist.com/commands Q: Is the list moderated, how do I contact the moderators, and what are the guidelines? A: The list is administered, not moderated by Mark Willis, James Newton , Mike Werner and Jory Bell (who setup and controls the list). Posting messages to the "PICList Administration Port", at PICList-Request@MITVMA.MIT.EDU, causes that message to be distributed to all admins who then read your post & try to help. They have now published guidelines at this site. Admin's guide the list by asking that people mark off topic messages with [OT] in the subject line (not OT, , {OT] or off topic) and PICLIST related but not PIC related messages with [Admin] so that people who do not wish to read these postings can filter them out via their email programs. Non-PIC related threads are common and the volume of messages can be several hundred per week. Several respected, valuable, and otherwise caring people have, in the past, unsubscribed due to a temporary peak in the volume of fluff and bad attitudes. When bickering and non-technical posts reach a fever pitch, James, Mark and even Jory have been known to step in and put a stop to it by warning people and throwing them off the list. Admin note: use del piclist email@domain.com. If you want to be accepted and get the most help, please read some general list guidelines at http://www.piclist.com/../listguide Text only posts (no HTML email) are preferred, subject not directly related to the PIC should be marked with [OT] at the end of the subject line (maybe add [EE] if it's still of interest to Electronic Engineers), and messages of hatred or intolerance will get you kicked off the list, period. Please forward suggestion or complaints about the list to the list admins at PICList-Request@MITVMA.MIT.EDU rather than to all the list members. Product information about your PIC related product is fine, but blatant spam is not. Advertise your company, product or site in a one or two line addition to your signature at the bottom of your posts. Q. Is the PICList a good place to ask for / post cracks for PIC related software? A. Remember that the PICList is a public forum. Asking for a crack will typically get you nothing but advice to pay for what you get. In the past, cracks posted to the list have evoked mixed responses ranging from offlist threats, to onlist thanks and have started some flame threads about hacking and cracking and software licenses and prices in general which always end up being a waste of bandwidth. List members have been known to forward cracking related threads to the maker of the product being cracked with full header information (including your email address, and who your ISP is). We can't stop people from posting things that are not legal. We do not approve of software piracy and will remove from the list individuals who show a flagrant disregard for the rights (and efforts) of others. We will forcibly kill flame threads that have no bearing on PICs and are not appropriate to the list. Jory says: "...[we can't prevent] PICList people [from pirating] software, since that is everyone's own choice, ... i don't want to police such things, but please keep in mind the nature of your communication, and the nature of a public list and decide what is appropriate." Lets keep cracking off the PICList, there are plenty of other lists for that, and as always, please mark anything not directly related to PIC engineering with an [OT] at the end of the subject line. Q: Can I advertise my product on the PICList? A: Yes and no. Read on: SOLVING PROBLEMS WITH YOUR PRODUCT :> Great! Responding to a question or a request for help with an advertisement for your product which is a solution to the original post is no problem. That type of advertising is "a good thing" as it A) solves the posters problem B) encourages PIC related businesses C) Keeps people who do PICs for a living involved in the list. D) sometimes it triggers a "hey, I can do that for a lot less" response that leads to a healthy competition for the advertisers. Don, Tony, Myke and others have been called on the carpet for advertising before and list members have resoundingly stood up for them. Before you buy anything, don't be afraid to ask others on the list for confirmation that a product recommended by the mfg. as a solution to your problem is a good choice. List members will not hesitate to speak up and the manufacturers are expected to be thick skinned. SIGNATURE LINES :) Good: Adding a line or two to your signature (and the "PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com " line doesn't count! ) about what you do, buy, sell or believe in is also no problem. The only possible exceptions are political and/or religious flame starters and spiteful messages. PRODUCT NEWS :| Maybe: Posting News or information about your product (unsolicited) to the list. Well... ok... *IF* its a product that people on the PICList will really use. The only trick is that in the eyes of the poster, the fact that his new hydroponic plant management system has a PIC somewhere in it qualifies it for the PICList even though he hasn't published a schematic, code or even any description of the design process and its never been mentioned on the list before. On the other hand, if the product actually A) does something to a PIC or for a PIC (like a programmer or a simulator etc...) B) Uses a PIC and has engineering details published or C) was designed with help from the list (e.g. we all heard about the problems and solutions involved in the making of it), we don't see any problem. THE FINAL WORD :{ Listen: The final judgment of what is appropriate is left in the hands of the PICList administrators, if *they* feel a post is inappropriate, they WILL take action with at least a warning, followed by removal and or barring the offender from the list, at their option, on this as in any transgression. Q: Is the list archived? A: Yes. Please use it: Since December 1998 up to realtime with a full search engine at http://www.infosite.com/~jkeyzer/piclist/index.html (NOTE: this site has been password protected to prevent mineing by SPAMers web robots for email addresses but the username is piclist and the password is piclist) Since March 1996 to realtime with a time range but subject line only search engine at http://www.iversoft.com/piclist/. The server also archives the list - as of 4 January 2000 the server contains archives back to April 1998. To get a list of the archives send the command "index piclist" to listserv@mitvma.mit.edu. (Thanks Mike!) Q: Are these archives searchable? A: Yes, they are. The two webpages have search engines on the page. The direct server interface also provides search capability by email. To use the email interface, compose a new message addressed to listserv@mitvma.mit.edu. In the body of the message, create your search parameters like this: search keyword in listname where keyword is the word or words (seperated by spaces) that you wish to search for and listname would be PICList. You can further limit the search to a specific time frame by adding the phrase from date1 to begin the search at date1. You can also specify an ending date by adding to date2 The full command would then be: search keyword in listname from date1 to date2 Two other limiters that can be used are where subject contains text and where sender contains text These limiters contain the search to messages that have certain subject lines or were sent by specific individuals, respectively. [Thanks to Mike Werner] Q: Why don't I see my own posts to the PICLIST? A: This is the default setting on the list server. To changes this so that a copy of your post is sent back to you from the list, send the command: SET PICLIST REP to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Q: Can I get the list in "digest" format? A: Yes. To change to digest mode, just send the command SET PICList DIGest to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU. To get back to individual emails, send the command SET PICList NODIGests to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Q: Can I get only the posts that interest me in digest form? Q: On my slow internet connection, it takes forever to download all the email and I'm only interested in a few anyway. How can I keep using the list? A: Using the Index mode of the PIC List. [thanks to Mike Werner] First of all, you must tell the server that you want the index mode for your subscription. To do this, send a message to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU with the command "set piclist index" (without the quotes, of course) as the sole content in the body of the message. From then on you will receive a daily index of postings to the list, looking something like this: Index Date Size Poster and subject ----- ---- ---- ------------------ 043066 10/22 18 From: Mike Werner Subject: Re: [OT] Bullet Proof Circuit... was: Survey... What is an Except that there would be a whole lot more entries than that. The headers are fairly self-explanatory, but as a quick once over they are: Index is a server assigned sequential number for reference purposes, Date is the date the message was received by the server, Size is the number of lines in the message not counting headers, and then Poster and Subject is just that. To retrieve the full message, all you need do is hit reply, quote the original message (most mailers will do that either automatically or provide a button to do so), and then edit out the messages that you are not interested in. Once you have done that, send the message. In a few minutes you will receive one digest-style message containing just the messages you wanted. Q: I'm going on vacation / don't want to be involved in the PICList for a while. Should I unsubscribe and then re-subscribe when I get back? A: You can, but this will reset any configuration related to your account. To preserve your settings, send the NOMAIL command: SET PICList NOMAIL to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU as you leave and then send the MAIL command: SET PICList MAIL to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU when you return. Also, consider setting digest mode (above) to continue getting PICList posts in a more compact form. Q: I've been on the PICList for a while and suddenly I'm not getting any of the 50 odd messages per day that normally come in: A: Sometimes, on the Internet (being the way it is), mail doesn't get through for a while - it does get through eventually. Situations happen like your mail being handed off to a machine which then gets disconnected due to some problem, be it "backhoe fade" or a hardware crash, things usually get fixed up in a couple days. Usually the traffic all shows up in one HUGE clump, some hours or days later on, whenever that server gets fixed or re-booted. It's annoying to us admins, as we have to tell the difference between not being on the list, being on the list but set to NoMail, or the above, or other problems that can happen. Sometimes, someone's ISP falls onto the RBL (Realtime Black hole List - an anti-SPAM list, this happened to MY ISP recently), or the PICList gets mistakenly ID'ed as a "SPAM" source by someone's ISP due to all the traffic, and all PICList traffic is filtered into the "circular binary file." Rarely, you get a fast response back, but the mail isn't getting through, despite the options the list server's set to looking like it should - When THAT happens, I suggest people unsub & re-subscribe, usually that fixes things. Sometimes just setting to digest & then regular mail a few seconds later can fix it. The usual test I suggest is to send a "Query PICList" message to the "PICList List Server Command Input Port" at LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU, if you don't get a response back from that address in 5 minutes or less, mail's dropping through an event horizon someplace between your ISP and the list server, or filtering is happening, or someone's on the RBL & is being filtered out. This is a good time to e-mail the list admins at PICList-Request@MITVMA.MIT.EDU and let us look into it. Q: My email address is changing. How can I forward my PICList emails? A: If you're moving to a new ISP, you can send in the command "CHange PICList newemailaddress@newISP", to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU to move your subscription. If you are no longer able to send email from your old ISP this will not work, so you will need to contact an administrator at PICList-Request@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Q: I want to post to the PICList from my home email account and from work. When I try to post from an account from which I am not subscribed to the PICList I get a "rejected posting" message and if I subscribe from both email accounts, I end up with two copies of every post. What can I do? A: Subscribe from both accounts then send the NOMAIL command from the email address where you do not wish to receive (but do wish to send) posts. Q: I'm having (some other) problem with the PICList A: [There are] Multiple ways to handle any type of List problems [says Mark] Send a "Query PICList" message, to the PICList List Server 'Command Input port' at , and forward the resulting e-mail you receive in return, to an Admin. with what's wrong; This gives me more info. Should get that response quickly, so if no response in a half hour, let me know that you tried. If this happens, it's a router problem. If you send such a message & get a delivery error, though, I want to know as I need to contact MIT or something (unlikely though.) Unsubscribe from the PICList and subscribe again. Yeah, I know, it's a pain! But sometimes the only way, seemingly, to fix some things (Methinks L-Soft has a bug to stomp somewhere in the Options setting/clearing code - for their credit, they seem to have most of them pretty well squished!) You'll have to then set your options again, which is a pain. I think (haven't tested yet) that you can put the options all into one e-mail, too, i.e. Subscribe on the first line, Set PICList Mail on the second, and even Set PICList Repro on the third {Now the default}, Set PICList NoACK on the fourth {Again the default} if you wanted. (I don't mind people asking for help, either, especially when they cannot unsub an old address due to an ISP change or ISP name change, it takes me 3 seconds to unsub people, so just make sure you ask me to unsub the CORRECT ADDRESS, lest I unsub the wrong one!) To get at old posts, either jump to http://www.iversoft.com/piclist/ and read there, or, you can send the command "Index PICList" to the PICList List Server 'Command Input port' at , which will get an index of old PICList messages for you. I don't think the list server keeps all messages ever posted, but it does keep some. You can then order individual messages by using "GETPOST PicList Ref#1 Ref#2 ..." etc., where Ref#1 is a reference number in the Index you just received. Q: How can I sort email from the PICList to separate it from my other email? A: Most email clients will allow you to setup a rule for moving PICList email into another folder. It always comes from PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU. If your email program doesn't support that or if you want to keep it all together but still easily see what emails are from the PICList, you can turn on a subject sort tag by sending the command SET PICLIST SUBJECTHDR to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU. This will insert the tag [PICLIST] in the subject line of every post and remove it from your replies to the list for other members who have turned this feature off (the default setting). You can disable it by sending SET PICLIST NOSUBJECTHDR to LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Q: How is the PICList like a PIC? A: The PICList list server has 3 "I/O Ports". Posting messages to the "PICList Mail Distribution port", at PICList@MITVMA.MIT.EDU, causes that message to be distributed to all 1800+ members of the PICList (Those who don't have NoMail set), who then read your post and make snide comments if you posted to the wrong address. Posting messages to the "PICList Administration Port", at PICList-Request@MITVMA.MIT.EDU, causes that message to be distributed to all admins of the PICList {Jory, Mark, & James, right now}, who then read your post & try to help. Posting messages to the "PICList Command Input Port", at LISTSERV@MITVMA.MIT.EDU, causes that message to be treated as a command by the listserve software, THIS and ONLY THIS is the address to send Unsubscribe requests, Set NoMail requests, and so forth. The listserve software ONLY listens here for commands, you can send them to those other "ports" all you want, and all you'll get is a copy back from the machine, telling you you've made a mistake. Same as on a PIC chip, using the wrong port for the wrong purpose may result in unintended consequences, like annoyed list neighbors or flustrated admins. And finally: Q: How many internet mail list subscribers does it take to change a light bulb? A: Exactly Five Hundred: 1 to change the light bulb and to post to the mail list that the light bulb has been changed 7 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently. 4 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs. (one post in HTML) 1 admin to post a message about not posting in HTML 17 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing 1 to post an unsubscribble message to the list (rather than to the list server) 1 to respond to that with a witty comment about t-shirts 1 to notice that some message in the signature line of one of the messages offends him and post a flaming rebuttal 1 One Admin to flame the other about SPAMming the list with pointers to his PICList FAQ resulting in a flurry of off list inter-admin posts that distract the admins just long enough to allow: 463 to pile into the flames This FAQ maintained by Jory Bell, Mark Willis and James Newton. Last update 200004131355 Links: http://www.piclist.com/faq http://www.piclist.com/projects http://www.microchip.com MicroChip Technologies http://www.dontronics.com http://www.doc.ic.ac.uk/~ih/doc/pic/ Ian Harries Documents & Information http://techref.massmind.org/microchip/piclinks.htm David Tait's Links to Internet PIC Resources http://digiserve.com/takdesign FAQ? http://www.iversoft.com/piclist/ Archives http://www.myke.com Myke Predko's Microcontroller Reference Page PICMicro Page http://www.wasp.co.za/~tjaart/index.html - Tjaart van der Walts home page. http://www.brouhaha.com/~eric/pic/ Eric Smith personal page of consultant http://www.dattalo.com Tweaking a PIC - Scott Dattalo software for PICs (sin, sqrt, log, bcd, parity, debounce, pwm, count, ) http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~sampowel/ Sam Powels PIC Archive http://www.sq-1.com Square One Electronics PIC'n Up the Pace, PIC'n Techniques, Serial PIC'n books http://www.rentron.com Rentron Projects Tutorial http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Network/3656/posit/posit.html - Tiny RTOS http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Cable/7772/ - Basic Stamp VM for '84 http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Way/5807/ links http://people.frankfurt.netsurf.de/wky/pic.htm links http://business.vsnl.com/chiptech/ Chip Technologies - kits, book, sample code/applications http://www.bytecraft.com/ Byte Craft C compiler, Also: A Touch Sensitive Circuit, Software A/D and D/A Converters, Non-Linear Data Transformations http://kitsrus.com http://virtuaweb.com/picprog/ http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Network/9276/downld.htm http://www.people.cornell.edu/pages/shb7/posc.html PIC based O-Scope http://www.geocities.com/kkaarvik/gameboy.html Ken's Gameboy and PIC Projects Page http://www.tech-tools.com http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Network/3656/sb/index.htm SmartBow. Software is a way to easilly create an HTML-document in IE 4.0 on Win 95/98 with a set of Virtual Controls (LEDs, buttons, displays etc.) connected to you code running on Microchip., Scenix. or any other microprocessos. It may be used to monitor and control your software running on a microprocessor and to create almost run-time debug environment. It registers as a service and communicates between the serial port and a set of Java Applets that implement the visual controls on the HTML page. http://www.users.bigpond.com/pbhandary/ http://members.tripod.com/~mdileo/snippic.html http://www.circuitcellar.com/pastissues/articles/richey110/text.htm Using a PIC for speech. http://websites.ntl.com/~matthew.rowe/micros/ PIC and AVR beginners page (good!) http://www.markworld.com/microtools.html excellent math and servos http://www.geocities.com/researchtriangle/lab/6584 Pic links and a nice switch (circuit breaker) tester project. http://www.midcoast.com.au/~paulb/faq_indx.html Dr. Paul B. Webster's little known "gottchas" http://www.idcomm.com/personal/ottosen/ Please let us know if we are missing anything. --- James Newton (PICList Admin #3) mailto:jamesnewton@piclist.com 1-619-652-0593 PIC/PICList FAQ: http://www.piclist.com or .org