That's pretty much what I see as well. The speed to market thing is really rough. That's what makes the PICList (and hopefully the PICList FAQ site (and for the PC, the Techref (well the massmind.org idea as a whole))) so important to me. If we don't' stick together and share, the world as a whole will put out a lot more crappy products that will do no good and just eat resources. If we learn from each others mistakes and share our findings, we can all put out better products. Its not about competition: If I share, yes, others will put out better products, but not better products than mine because I got there first (and I don't (can't) share everything). And I will learn from thoughs I share with. We will all do better so the playing field rises (allot) rather than my little square on it rising (a little). As far as corruption goes, I just think that people should be aware of the fact that their time is money and they are paying for the conference with it. If they are going to go to conferences, go to all of them. Ask at each what is wrong with the others. I'm sure the XYZ rep will tell you that the ABC company product has no second source. Better yet, keep an email list of FAE's and just shoot them all off the same questions. Saves travel time..... well... I have to admit it doesn't taste nearly as good... --- James Newton mailto:jamesnewton@geocities.com 1-619-652-0593 http://techref.massmind.org NEW! FINALLY A REAL NAME! Members can add private/public comments/pages ($0 TANSTAAFL web hosting) -----Original Message----- From: Quitt, Walter [mailto:wquitt@microjoin.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 09:55 To: 'jamesnewton@piclist.com' Subject: RE: TI "next generation" DSP intro [OT] Importance: Low Oh what a can of worms we've opened with this one! I'll try to be terse. 1. Which chip to use? 2. Corruption. 1. With our general time to market issues and the cheaper, smaller, faster idioms; the question of which chip to use can become skewed. Of course, I refer to the real or commercial world. Hobby, training and academia play to a much different tune. Then to make a long story sort, you will oft times use parts that you feel most comfortable with. Meaning you can get it to do something FAST. That does not mean you are familiar with it. It does not mean it is the very best. It means it fits in well with all the constraints that revolve around the project. 2. Corruption: Geez, in a perfect world we would not be biased. We would fully be exposed and equally informed about all parts that we can get hold of or will be ready by the time we need them. The above just ain't the case, of course. So we go with the best of what we have been exposed to. If I can't find out about a part, I can't use it. That's why the sales people keep knocking. It is such a horrible circle. TG for the web. It meets the better, cheaper, faster idiom for information access. I use it A LOT! Anyways, we are as corrupt as we allow ourselves to be, by either or not being aware of parts that are out there. As stated, it is a horrible circle. Oh well, that's my experience, yours is most likely different. -Walt... -----Original Message----- From: James Newton [mailto:jamesnewton@PICLIST.COM] Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 9:33 AM To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: TI "next generation" DSP intro [OT] My quirky sense of humor... I think its hard to distinguish between innocence and complete corruption. Not having been influenced in any one direction is the same has having been influenced in every direction equally. That's why the kids and grandpa get along so well. Its incomplete corruption that you have to watch out for. Its hard to be balanced in the level of influence that you receive in all the different possible direction. I find myself asking "do I want to go with this chip because I know more about it or because its really better for the job?" Am I willing to take a chance on something that looks better but that I have little experience in? My point was that you are paying for the free lunch by learning about their product. It was an explanation of the apparent violation of the TANSTAAFL law. --- James Newton mailto:jamesnewton@geocities.com 1-619-652-0593 http://techref.massmind.org NEW! FINALLY A REAL NAME! Members can add private/public comments/pages ($0 TANSTAAFL web hosting) -----Original Message----- From: Quitt, Walter [mailto:wquitt@microjoin.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 09:10 To: 'jamesnewton@piclist.com' Subject: RE: TI "next generation" DSP intro [OT] Importance: Low I listened to the Microchip pitch several times. Then evaluated other PIC like devices and choose them. That was around 95 or so. We now have several Welding related devices and a couple of Welding power supplies using them. I listened to the TI pitch many times too. I listened to the Analog Devices pitch. Choose Analog Devices. They burned us; we could not get parts. "On allocataion." Then they changed the package style. Then they went obsolete. All in under 2 years! I listened to the TI pitch for the 320C32. Cheap, available and like other C3x parts, should be around a long time. We now use the C32. Corrupt? I dunno. Microchip and TI have GREAT support. Pretty good availability. They know us and we know them. Not too bad. Innocent? Don't think so. After close to 15 years at this, you get to be a dirty old man. We/I get pitched too soooo many times about this that or the other thing, you kinda begin to ignore them until you need something. There are sooo many companies out there. If you go with a source that has no second source, you can get screwed. Witness the PGA wars. Use one and you're stuck with it. They get bought out, and the product dies. Your hosed. So we go with the biggies and hope for the best. Besides we get a FREE lunch every now and then. :-) Donuts too. -Walt... -----Original Message----- From: James Newton [mailto:jamesnewton@piclist.com] Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 9:00 AM To: pic microcontroller discussion list Cc: Wagner Lipnharski; Walter Quitt Subject: RE: TI "next generation" DSP intro [OT] What price the corruption of an innocent engineers mind with their product data? We become who we listen to, right? --- James Newton mailto:jamesnewton@geocities.com 1-619-652-0593 http://techref.massmind.org NEW! FINALLY A REAL NAME! Members can add private/public comments/pages ($0 TANSTAAFL web hosting) -----Original Message----- From: pic microcontroller discussion list [mailto:PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU]On Behalf Of Dmitry Kiryashov Sent: Tuesday, February 08, 2000 08:44 To: PICLIST@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Subject: Re: TI "next generation" DSP intro [OT] Hi Walter. How about TANSTAAFL ? ;-) WBR Dmitry. "Quitt, Walter" wrote: > > If you sign up for one of their free seminars > and listen to their sales pitch, you will > (usually) not only get a free lunch but > eval kits, books, tee shirts etc...... > I love it, > Walt...