Hi Paul,

>Sean Breheny wrote:
>
>  I must agree that what you suggest is simply not consistent with the
>M$ ethic.  Their software is not *for* engineers/ programmers/
>scientists/ mathematicians or indeed any profession which requires
>logical thought.  "Logical thought" would, and does lead one irrevocably
>to Linux or, some would say, beyond.  No, their software is for
>*consumers* or "purchasing units", however you see it.

Well, Paul, it might be argued that someone is born an engineer (in the
sense that they have innate abilities), BUT, they don't always realize that
when they are 6 years old! What I mean is that I was introduced to many
aspects of computers that I previously didn't know about, simply because
they were THERE. My first computer was a commodore 64. If it lacked certain
easily hackable features, I might never have become interested in assembly
language.

>
>  To be truthful, "most kids" have general games knowledge.  Computer
>courses are practical insofar as they promote the skills of operating
>a computer, starting the programs and hopefully, recovering safely from
>the crashes.

Very few computer classes (and very few computer teachers know how!) deal
with how to prevent and recover from crashes. The computer classes in my
high school pretty much showed you how to use a spreadsheet and
wordprocessor. Somewhat appropriate, but most people probably just were
bored and could pick up this stuff on their own in a couple of days. In my
elementary school, they pretty much tried to teach you to type and gave
quiz questions like "What part of the computer holds the stored data?"

>
>  Except for this last point, much the same as driving a car and for the
>same reasons.  In fact, I suspect you would also bemoan current
>de-skilling in automobile servicing and engineering if you considered
>that also.

I don't see the analogy. I don't think any computer class in elementary or
seconday levels that I have been exposed to dealt with troubleshooting at
all.

If it weren't for safety considerations, few people would take driving
lessons, I think. Unguided trial and error is simply not acceptible on main
roads when someone first starts learning. Computers are different, if you
make a mistake, so what? You learn from it,but without the consequences.

>
>  *Actual* interest in the art of programming remains an elite option
>pursued by those with a passion for it - the likes of *YOU* in fact.
>Like you, those with the desire, will locate the tools.

That's true. However, we all have to start somewhere. Unlike many who go
down the route I did, neither of my parents is very technically oriented,
in fact, neither use computers at all. I got the original germ of technical
knowledge that I had from accidental things (such as playing with my
computer), being taught LOGO in kindergarten, and a distant uncle who was
interested in it.

I want others to have similar opportunities.

Perhaps part of our disagreement stems from talking about different
countries? All of my experiences are, of course, from the USA.

Sean


>--
>  Cheers,
>        Paul B.
>
|
| Sean Breheny
| Amateur Radio Callsign: KA3YXM
| Electrical Engineering Student
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